The Eightfold Path - The Fourth Noble Truth

[Gem]

So I went to see what Ramana said, and he was basically talking about breath control, which is a pranayama thing (which I know practically nothing about). Anapana is normal, natural breathing - Not controlled breathing - and this marks the difference between seeing it 'as it is' and making it 'as you want it to be'.

[JustBe]

@Gem

Maybe the many different forms of breathing that are used, actually support as a ‘stream’ and focus in the body in that way.

Just as an example, someone who is very controlling, through controlled breathing, might become aware of bigger sensations in certain areas of the body where controlled responses have created pockets in that way. So controlled breathing, might open dense heaviness. Focus on the tip of your nose feeling the slightest touch might activate more subtle lighter sensations in the body not aware of otherwise.

Normal breathing, just allowing your normal breath to move as it does, might become a slower overall body awareness. I don’t know, it will be what it will be. Just giving an example.

During reiki sessions, I’ve had all manner of examples from relaxed meditative processors, just from normal breath. Nothing forced or pushed, just normal relaxed self present with what is.

Some of the feedback shows the variation if process and experience people are as they are.

I never question that. It’s their process.

Sometimes I do a little lymphatic breath practice that simply requires me to place my hands over my hara and just with slight resistance, breath normally in and out. The lymphatic system does require a pumping movement through active movements to get it flowing more so, so that’s why I do that.

As a recovered fight and flight person, to the max, I’ve nokjticed that with healing myself my breath through that recovery has gone from shallow to deep most naturally. But that’s not just from breath alone. As you know it’s a holistic awareness and holistic balance in the body, to reach that.

The way into the mind/body is varied, but using normal breath seems like a good place to start because ultimately, it’s what your going to meet in yourself after all the gunk is gone.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I never question that. It’s their process.

It's primarily a non-volitional practice since volition perpetuates ego. Mindfulness meditation primarily undermines ego, or as we say, ends the process of rebirth. I'm not in anyway against control like pranayama etc. It's good and beneficial. It's just diametrically opposed to mindfulness in that mindfulness is non-volitional (just observe) and control is volitional (you make it happen).

The real fundamental stuff is non-volitional - still there when you stop volition, but that doesn't mean the volitional stuff is bad or useless. It's good and useful, but realising it is motivated by averion/desire is the insight of mindfulness.

During a more intense purification event, we can find the breathing gets blocked up, so while the 'gunk' is moving one should be intent on breathing smoothly and regularly, but not controlling. The internal movement will make you breath more deeply anyway, and you can just observe all that. The erratic or stopped breathing we experience comes from psychological reactions we usually have as a dense feeling comes loose and moves through, it's an aversion or resisting reaction as if you want to stop that moving... because it does feel hard when such density moves up and through.

You're just there, serene with the equanimity (which isn't to say easy) - and 'this feeling' - the breath will continue smoothly, albeit more deeply due to the extra energy of the movement. If left alone (not resisted or pushed) it will come all the way through at its own rate and pass away. Then the breath will return to shallow in its own comfortable time as you slowly recover from the release. There should also be a light soothing energy following the release, maybe warmth, maybe white light, spirit, something like that...

The breathing will adjust of its own accord for any healing event or energy flow, so there's actually no need to control. The pranayama guys are trying to 'make it happen' so they breath in a special controlled way, and no harm, it's very good... but for the fundamental stuff... that desire will have to end.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 625 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by sky

Ramana is a very wise Man, a more 'Natural Sedative' one will never find..

Samatha Meditation is focused on calming the mind, whilst Vipassana Meditation is focused on insight/ clearing the mind. Both can be beneficial or seen as a 'Natural Sedative', a clear mind is tranquil and fee from tension.

I agree with you completely that "Both (Samatha Meditation and Vipassana Meditation) can be beneficial or seen as a 'Natural Sedative', a clear mind is tranquil and fee from tension".

I also liked what you wrote regarding "Physical beauty fades and your blessed to be able to see beyond the 'Physical', not everyone can do that."

Yes. I do love my furry sentient beings.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 628 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by sky

...several researchers have reported that Pranayama Techniques are beneficial in treating a range of stress-related disorders. Ramana was correct and realized this before any formal research was done ( I presume ).

Pranayama Techniques are the 4th limb in Asthanga Yoga (Eight-Limbed Yoga). It is a preliminary to (5) Pratyahara (abstinence from food of the senses); (6) Dharana (concentration); (7) Dhyana (meditation); and (8) samadhi, which is the eighth and final limb in Pantanjali's Yoga sutras.

As you duly noted, "Pranayama Techniques are beneficial in treating a range of stress-related disorders".

I was recently approached by a friend interested in meditation. I asked him to first share what he had heard about meditation. When he said that he was stressed out and wanted to be more relaxed, I recommended to him some breathing techniques (pranayama) to reduce stress and relax.

Some people consider that to be meditation and that's why I always ask that question before recommending a technique.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

that desire will have to end.

It all makes sense, what your showing.

From where I reside now in my body, it makes more sense in me, to let the normal breath just be, observe from a place of equanimity and attentiveness to the totality going on inside. I can do this now and don’t get caught up in myself.

People tend to get caught up on certain points of focus in their mind body, it’s all fine of course. I think practises that relate to any breath work, are good practices, but they are just practices. We all relate to a practice, where our focus and desire for ‘something’ arises. We might not know, but we feel a connection to it for whatever reason. So use it.

I think your last comment is the most important one to be aware of. Everything falls away eventually.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

It all makes sense, what your showing.

I basically said all the same things as you did... in a different way.


From my own perspective, I'm here already, so any add ons like urges to control can be recognised along with the desire/aversion that motivates it... and how that comes from disruption to my equanimity. I really only work on equanimity. I do get caught up in myself, but I know how that interferes with the process, so I don't do anything intentionally. I just get a bit overwhelmed sometimes.

The desire/aversion is from feelings in the body, so the attention has been avoiding some things and being aware of others, and we find in our body there are parts that are easy to feel, and other places that are really dull. Parts kinda just go to sleep or hide away after being out of conscious awareness too long, so I think a systemic approach of feeling every part from crown to toes or toes to crown is best. After a while, like a few months of daily practice, the duller parts become easier to feel, like they 'wake up', and the denser parts become lighter like they dissolve. Old persistent pains start to resolve themselves, and if you use a sitting position, the posture starts to right itself. The mind also becomes really acute so you can feel the subtler body, which feels light and pretty much the same all over, and when it's pretty much all uniform, you can just sit in whole body awareness. In the anapanna sutta they mention breathing in feeling the whole body, but in practice, whole body awareness is a pretty subtle level and it takes a while to get to that. When the densities are pretty much all dissolved away, you go into energy flow, and that's when your previous practice of equanimity which led up to this becomes necessary and also most important. From that perspective we can see the problems with paranayama and why the mindfulness approach is said to be 'the only way' in the satipatthana.

Even though I say that, I'm not saying there is no use for pranayama type controls. I don't say it's bad or my way is great and your way is rubbish. Not at all. I say it's good and beneficial, but from my own understanding, I couldn't in good conscience recommend it as meditation. If you need the energy control for martial arts, tai chi and yoga for examples, then of course you need breath control - wherever it has a place it's excellent.

[JustBe]

You did and I’m agreeing with your view whole heartedly.

I think your right too, certain paths and practices through choice to do them tend to use breath differently. It’s all ok but even when they are done and your walking around in life living, it probably serves you to be more mindfully aware of your normal breath, because then you’ll notice things, like constriction, forcing, overwhelm etc..

It’s a great instrument to know thyself, in all ways of being you, living and creating yourself.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 628 EXCERPT:

I was recently approached by a friend interested in meditation. I asked him to first share what he had heard about meditation. When he said that he was stressed out and wanted to be more relaxed, I recommended to him some breathing techniques (pranayama) to reduce stress and relax.

It's helpful to be able to recommend a method that's been tried and tested by many and proven to be beneficial to your friend. The best thing about using the breath as a Meditation Tool is that you can't forget to take it with you, it's the mind that can be elsewhere

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky

It's helpful to be able to recommend a method that's been tried and tested by many and proven to be beneficial to your friend. The best thing about using the breath as a Meditation Tool is that you can't forget to take it with you, it's the mind that can be elsewhere

Well said.