*Need help* malevolent aliens in astral/etheric plane

Originally Posted by Summerlander

I just want to say that money matters to some in this world. Also, the "negative entities" interpretation is also inaccurate because what one considers to be negative might be considered as positive for someone else. It's like someone saying that they don't like nightmares because they are scary and someone else coming along and saying that nightmares are useful in making you face your fears...


You are just biased by one side of the coin, my friend. That's all.

Are you serious? :S That would be taking a negative experience and turning it into something positive...so you could prepare yourself for more negative experiences. That doesn't make whoever is causing the bad experience a positive entity.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

Alan...

I just want to say that money matters to some in this world. Also, the "negative entities" interpretation is also inaccurate because what one considers to be negative might be considered as positive for someone else. It's like someone saying that they don't like nightmares because they are scary and someone else coming along and saying that nightmares are useful in making you face your fears...

Money matters to everyone. Whether we like it or not, money drives most everything, especially science. Science doesn't get done without funding. Funding doesn't come without an agenda. Nobody will provide funding unless it furthers their agenda.

I'm well aware of the subjective interpretation of positive/negative. It's pretty irrelevant. Your example is flawed because it plays on the same interpretation of negative/positive. I.e. implying that facing your fears is a positive to arise from the negativity of nightmares. Positive/negative IS subjective, but in this scenario that subjectivity needn't come into play, unless you can provide a more sound example...

your theory that there is an astral plane populated by spiritual beings is just as valid and the theory that it is all an illusion concocted by the brain.

Actually, no, no it isn't. You're the first person who astral projects (or lucid dreams, from the sound of it?) that I've met who still considers the "it's all in your head" interpretation. Usually I hear this from people who have little to no prior knowledge or experience of astral projection whatsoever. I'm not some kind of projecting prodigy, but I think I know quite a bit more about astral projection from my years of research, experience and experimentation than people who have heard about it 30 seconds ago and are now dismissing it as a dream because it's outside of their scope of reality. I've talked with the so-called "science types" and found that they always dismiss it before they've learned much about it, usually within a few seconds. Drawing a conclusion before even doing the slightest bit of research is as un-scientific as it gets. If you review any of the studies done into OBE's, you can see this prior bias shining through, which might account for the flaccidity of the research itself.

FYI my theory is not that it is populated by "spiritual" beings... I think it is populated by people who no longer have physical bodies.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by earthatic

... I have a hard time trusting beings that try to compell me to do something, yet do not even tell me what they're trying to make me do. I have had a few tricksters fool me in the past, so forgive me if I don't trust a being that is probably malevolent.

So that's one thing that has made me more cautious when encountering any type of spirit, because you don't always know who you're interacting with.

I understand this mistrust very well from the trickster demon who hangs around me. We do need to be able to discern who we're interacting with and what their intentions are.

The only sure fire way I know is to breathe into my inner heart. No negativity can exist there, my demon won't go there, and from this quiet heart space intuition is always true.


Xan

[Xan]

Originally Posted by earthatic

Are you serious? :S That would be taking a negative experience and turning it into something positive...so you could prepare yourself for more negative experiences.

Actually this attitude is empowering, earthatic, and rather than preparing yourself for more negative experiences (which, by the way, you have been doing by building a defense system against them) it changes your view of yourself, life and possibilities by choosing how you respond and how you feel rather than reacting from fear and conditioned expectations.

That doesn't make whoever is causing the bad experience a positive entity.

It doesn't really matter whether the entity is positive or negative. It matters how you are growing and evolving in your experience of yourself. These negative entities can be seen as interference or as opportunities to rise to a higher level.

This is what I came to in myself. I don't care what his intention is, mine is to keep going... getting stronger in my dedication in the truth, going deeper, and serving only the True Heart.


Xan

Originally Posted by Alan

Money matters to everyone. Whether we like it or not, money drives most everything, especially science. Science doesn't get done without funding. Funding doesn't come without an agenda. Nobody will provide funding unless it furthers their agenda.

I'm well aware of the subjective interpretation of positive/negative. It's pretty irrelevant. Your example is flawed because it plays on the same interpretation of negative/positive. I.e. implying that facing your fears is a positive to arise from the negativity of nightmares. Positive/negative IS subjective, but in this scenario that subjectivity needn't come into play, unless you can provide a more sound example...

Actually, no, no it isn't. You're the first person who astral projects (or lucid dreams, from the sound of it?) that I've met who still considers the "it's all in your head" interpretation. Usually I hear this from people who have little to no prior knowledge or experience of astral projection whatsoever. I'm not some kind of projecting prodigy, but I think I know quite a bit more about astral projection from my years of research, experience and experimentation than people who have heard about it 30 seconds ago and are now dismissing it as a dream because it's outside of their scope of reality. I've talked with the so-called "science types" and found that they always dismiss it before they've learned much about it, usually within a few seconds. Drawing a conclusion before even doing the slightest bit of research is as un-scientific as it gets. If you review any of the studies done into OBE's, you can see this prior bias shining through, which might account for the flaccidity of the research itself.

FYI my theory is not that it is populated by "spiritual" beings... I think it is populated by people who no longer have physical bodies.

LOL! This made me laugh. My friend, just because you've read loads of books about UFOs doesn't mean you've seen one. Likewise with the OOBE phenomenon. The fact that it might be all in the brain IS still a possibility.

I have been projecting non-stop for three years now and I have found that OOBEs actually do have a lot in common with lucid dreaming and they are probably the same thing. What they are exactly is what's elusive. From MY experience, OOBEs and lucid dreams are terms we made up. They are different ways of entering the same realm: the metaphysical in all its glory.

In OOBEs, you usually separate into inaccurate replicas of the physical world (hence the burlesque versions of your bedroom) which might as well be manifested from expectation from your unconscious mind. In lucid dreams, you usually skip this "expectation" as you find yourself in different scenarios straight away rather than 'travelling' there.

They are both the same realm. Even space or distance there are a thought which, on that level, emulates actuality. Space there is not actual...it is illusory. Even your sense of movement, so, in essence, you are not really separating from anything.

Remember that the brain receives data from the external world and then interprets it its own way. Each brain area is associated with different modes of perception, like balance, spatiality, orientation, memory etc. etc.

So, in the waking state, while it translates the objective data it receives...in the "OOBE-state" (and dream states) the brain is free to play with the 'playdoh' so to speak and interpret however it wants the memory of the data it has been receiving from the waking state. It may even make it more fanciful than the interpretation of reality that it's so used to (hence the bright colours, the crisp quality and the apparent hyper-reality of the metaphysical world). Hence why the so-called "astral plane" can be so similar to physical reality and why anything can manifest from belief there.

Waking state is like going to school where you have to pay attention to the teacher. Then you go home and do your homework.

"Astral Projection" is when you are free to unwind, play games, be creative and use your imagination free of constraints.

Do yourself a favour and stop reading books filled with astral fantasy interpretations and actually experience that state of consciousness from a fresh perspective, free of someone else's interpretations.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

LOL! This made me laugh. My friend, just because you've read loads of books about UFOs doesn't mean you've seen one. Likewise with the OOBE phenomenon. The fact that it might be all in the brain IS still a possibility.

Do yourself a favour and stop reading books filled with astral fantasy interpretations and actually experience that state of consciousness from a fresh perspective, free of someone else's interpretations.

What are you talking about? When did I ever say that I was reading books as opposed to experiencing things for myself? Your books/UFO analogy is just ridiculous... I never said at any point "I have read so many books on astral projection but have never done it myself". Why you're assuming this, I am not sure.

Your "fresh perspective" approach rings hollow. It's good advice, but I sense it is artificial and hypocritical. You yourself are clearly not experiencing from an objective or fresh perspective. I've seen your mindset before, and it is definitely not unique to you... good try pretending that it is. Like I said, your advice isn't bad, but wow, is it ever hypocritical

Also, your suggestion that I should stop reading astral fantasy books is ironic, considering your username. I would guess that you have read more than me.

The parts of your post that I didn't quote are irrelevant to this thread, and was not a natural progression from my post. You were taking the opportunity to monologue. If you have some thoughts you'd like to share, then do so, but I prefer that if you quote me then you actually reply to what I'm saying... taking the liberty to release some of your personal musings is not appreciated and is a bit of a time-waster for me.

[Xan]

hmmm... You guys seem to have hijacked earthatic's thread about his issue into a philosophical debate about the nature of mind and alternate realities. Maybe you could start your own d.... thread, eh?


Xan

Originally Posted by Alan

What are you talking about? When did I ever say that I was reading books as opposed to experiencing things for myself? Your books/UFO analogy is just ridiculous... I never said at any point "I have read so many books on astral projection but have never done it myself". Why you're assuming this, I am not sure.

LOL! Well...you said and I quote: "I know quite a bit more about astral projection from my years of research". - and judging by what you said I'd say you are very biased by what you've read. What you state most of the time is not yours.

Originally Posted by Alan

Your "fresh perspective" approach rings hollow. It's good advice, but I sense it is artificial and hypocritical.

Oxymoronic much?

Originally Posted by Alan

You yourself are clearly not experiencing from an objective or fresh perspective. I've seen your mindset before, and it is definitely not unique to you... good try pretending that it is. Like I said, your advice isn't bad, but wow, is it ever hypocritical

Care to elaborate, my friend? Or are you just name-calling because you don't like something I've said?

Originally Posted by Alan

Also, your suggestion that I should stop reading astral fantasy books is ironic, considering your username. I would guess that you have read more than me.

Oh...my username! LOL! There's a story there...I believe I've explained it before. By the way...if I'd picked the name "fairy" would you have assumed that I believe in such things?

Originally Posted by Alan

The parts of your post that I didn't quote are irrelevant to this thread, and was not a natural progression from my post.

Of course, of course...

Originally Posted by Alan

You were taking the opportunity to monologue. If you have some thoughts you'd like to share, then do so, but I prefer that if you quote me then you actually reply to what I'm saying... taking the liberty to release some of your personal musings is not appreciated and is a bit of a time-waster for me.

Erm...am I supposed to feel insulted or are you just giving me information about yourself for free?

Since we're off topic, does anyone know what it means if your natural voice in the astral sounds like a whisper, and it's hard to talk loudly?
Also, I met a typical ghostly girl last projection. What I mean is that she had long dark messy hair and was wearing a white gown, transparent. I was attempting to find out who my soulmate was, and seemed to really **** her off... And I have no idea who she is lol. Not to be insulting, but she looked like the girl from The Ring and her movements looked like they were almost frame by frame...like from an old movie projector. I wasn't afraid but it's creepy now that I think about it. If you look up "white lady ghost" on google images, you'll see what I am talking about...

edit: also I've seen many spirits puff up their chest, tilt their head back, and made a sharp breathing noise that sounds like a hissing noise, any one know what that is?

[Xan]

Originally Posted by earthatic

Since we're off topic, does anyone know what it means if your natural voice in the astral sounds like a whisper, and it's hard to talk loudly?

In the astral we aren't talking with our physical voice apparatus, are we. Telepathy is the mode of communication out of body, and often in it too these days.


Xan