Agreement

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yes, Gem. I understand this too.

In much the same way as Advaitins will repeat whatever their teachers or gurus will say by rote, without understanding any of the concepts involved either.

To be honest with you all, all of this is just 'mental stuff' and even mastering the mind, repeating mantras by rote, becoming aware of the nature of reality itself, won't lead to the full realisation of it.

You can parrot "I am that" or "I am oneness" as much as you like, but nothing will happen, because in the end, it is a heart thing. The heart is the door that leads to this understanding, to this realisation and not the mind.

Well said.

So, what would happen if the Buddha did not exist...if Shankaracharya did not exist? If all those writers mentioned by Moondance did not exist? then it would be up to us to seek realisation (if we even knew about such a thing) through drinking coffee...caffeine would be 'God' to us.

However, I do understand the concept of the moving pen writing, and once having written, moves on and then it's up to others to deal with the fallout from it.

So yes, I am an Advaita Vedantin, but at the same time, I'm a Bhakti Yogi...I'm also a dualist in all splendour and glory until non-duality is attained through this duality...until the heart gets involved to totally bypass my 'conditioned mind' with all of this 'Advaita stuff'....because what we have witnessed happening here is the whole limitation of it.

True knowledge beyond the parroting of it (book knowledge) will die, Traditions will die, all cognitive dissonance will die...even Dharma (Dhamma) itself will die...but there's one thing that can never die...one thing that will remain no matter how many aeons pass...it is something that can never be 'in the past' or 'modernised'...something that cannot be added to...subtracted from...changed in any way...and no, it isn't Brahman...it isn't consciousness or the absolute 'one-ness'...it is unconditional love...pure and simple.

I think it is all basically dead in contrast to what is really living, and there is an immediate vitality which is like 'true love' in nature. The teachers of old and new don't speak so we can learn new things, but to prompt us all and remind us of this essence of our being, the life of us.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yes, Gem. I understand this too.
To be honest with you all, all of this is just 'mental stuff' and even mastering the mind, repeating mantras by rote, becoming aware of the nature of reality itself, won't lead to the full realisation of it.

You can parrot "I am that" or "I am oneness" as much as you like, but nothing will happen, because in the end, it is a heart thing. The heart is the door that leads to this understanding, to this realisation and not the mind.

I'm feeling especialy mean tonite so, how do you know that you aren't off on the same tangent only now you say the word 'heart' instead of the word 'head'?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

Well said.



I think it is all basically dead in contrast to what is really living, and there is an immediate vitality which is like 'true love' in nature. The teachers of old and new don't speak so we can learn new things, but to prompt us all and remind us of this essence of our being, the life of us.

Beautiful!

This essence of being, the vitality is not only the life of us as individuals, but it's also the whole construct of the universe and once experientially realised, the heart just implodes with a feeling one can only describe as being 'true love' but there's a lot more to it than that.

You'll also see that a lot of Advaita Vedantins, even Shankaracharya himself surrendered their whole mind and mental existence to it...leading them not only to expound the very crux of non-dual philosophy, but also compose the most beautiful hymns to the goddess ever known (Soundarya lahari).

The teacher of the ancients, the 'Adi Guru" or the 'first Guru"...Buddhists will call it Vairochana...Hindus will call it Dakshinamurthy, never spoke whatsoever and yet, all of the rishis...all of the sanat kumaras became enlightened...achieved Nirvana through grace and nothing more.

There's a limit to the saying "I am that" until one realises that everything is that...and that's the point at which they can say "I am that" no longer.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

I'm feeling especialy mean tonite so, how do you know that you aren't off on the same tangent only now you say the word 'heart' instead of the word 'head'?

It is because I don't know it, as 'knowing' something requires the function of mind and not the heart.

I mean, I could go into the many ways of how I love Lord Shiva...I'd really like to do that...but I look at the title of this forum, it's called "non-duality" and so I just shrug my shoulders and go "ah well".

[Shivani Devi]

You'll also find those who don't get 'what they need' will depart and go elsewhere until they find it and they'll spend their whole lives, like a bee flitting from one flower to the next.

So many people are just looking for somebody to agree with them and that's all they want to be happy...they will achieve nirvana as soon as another says 'yeah, you're totally right there'.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Beautiful!

This essence of being, the vitality is not only the life of us as individuals, but it's also the whole construct of the universe and once experientially realised, the heart just implodes with a feeling one can only describe as being 'true love' but there's a lot more to it than that.

You'll also see that a lot of Advaita Vedantins, even Shankaracharya himself surrendered their whole mind and mental existence to it...leading them not only to expound the very crux of non-dual philosophy, but also compose the most beautiful hymns to the goddess ever known (Soundarya lahari).

The teacher of the ancients, the 'Adi Guru" or the 'first Guru"...Buddhists will call it Vairochana...Hindus will call it Dakshinamurthy, never spoke whatsoever and yet, all of the rishis...all of the sanat kumaras became enlightened...achieved Nirvana through grace and nothing more.

There's a limit to the saying "I am that" until one realises that everything is that...and that's the point at which they can say "I am that" no longer.

I've always appreciated that saying because in all this discussion of ourselves I could never place myself as "that" exactly, and I don't know anything about it, so I'm not surprised adi guru has nothing to say.

The spiritual workings are in the metta vibes, the heart as you say, so I generally encourage us all to give a metta vibe as best we can.

P.S. I'm a big fan of the Nis

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

I've always appreciated that saying because in all this discussion of ourselves I could never place myself as "that" exactly, and I don't know anything about it, so I'm not surprised adi guru has nothing to say.

The spiritual workings are in the metta vibes, the heart as you say, so I generally encourage us all to give a metta vibe as best we can.

P.S. I'm a big fan of the Nis

Hey, Gem...ever get the feeling that you don't know why you are on SF? I mean, it's not like it is for your benefit, or anybody else's benefit either and you couldn't care less one way or the other, don't care if people agree or disagree and you don't even care what people say even if they do/not respond to your posts or even read them and you can give out as many 'metta vibes' as you like, but if people are closed off to receiving them, all they do is bounce straight back atcha....

I often wonder why I am here...not only on SF but in the general sense, because my purpose seems purpose-less and so I try not to have any purpose whatsoever, I try to just "be" and I could spend my life just "be-ing" but apart from an aware person who is just 'be-ing' and existing in their own awareness, what's the use?

I get that feeling quite often.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Hey, Gem...ever get the feeling that you don't know why you are on SF? I mean, it's not like it is for your benefit, or anybody else's benefit either and you couldn't care less one way or the other, don't care if people agree or disagree and you don't even care what people say even if they do/not respond to your posts or even read them and you can give out as many 'metta vibes' as you like, but if people are closed off to receiving them, all they do is bounce straight back atcha....

I often wonder why I am here...not only on SF but in the general sense, because my purpose seems purpose-less and so I try not to have any purpose whatsoever, I try to just "be" and I could spend my life just "be-ing" but apart from an aware person who is just 'be-ing' and existing in their own awareness, what's the use?

I get that feeling quite often.

Well I care what people have say, so to me it's like a conversation over coffee, and the main reason I'm here is internet addiction.

For me, a metta vibe is just there anyway so it's always part of my listening and speaking, but there are times I am aware of some acrimony arising in me, but that's for my own self awareness and it's not somebody's fault, it's just the sorts of life issues that are particular to me, my own impurity, defilement, emotional problem, or whatever people call it. It's very rare I would project my own arising issues on someone as blame or anything like that, and if and when I do, that's my bad.

It's like all the things I experience, it all reminds me of self awareness, and it is as though it all moves in me, my peace of mind, my reactivity, my rising life issues, and as things I experience can be pleasurable of discomforting, it's all opportunity for me to practice that equanimity of the mind.

The metta flow is like a consequence of that, and it came after some degree of purification. It used to be blocked so much that I couldn't really feel it at all, but after some really determined meditations, things started to open up and the loving kindness radiated through.

The purification is incomplete and I have life issues just like anyone does, but the metta flow doesn't stop, and I don't try to 'aim it' at anyone... it's more like a 'space of metta', which is hard to articulate, but you may be familiar with that vibe in the empty temple, like an 'air of peace' or something.

So, the metta is here, I can't make it start or make it stop, though I could clear more space in a deliberate way, and I have visualisation technique which seems to amplify the radiance, but I rarely practice that, as I have found it is consequential to the healing purification process, which itself is basically a consequence to mindful equanimity.

Now I'm way off the ND subject, innit...

[Shivani Devi]

Yep, the main reason why I am here is due to an internet addiction as well. lol

Thanks for your comments though and I guess it's just something that can be fixed with some more meditation to refine the whole awareness process.

Then, of course there's always the surrender and the trust in a 'power greater than myself' to know what is best for me and leave it up to that to give my life some purpose and meaning, rather than thinking I have any purpose apart from it.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yep, the main reason why I am here is due to an internet addiction as well. lol

Thanks for your comments though and I guess it's just something that can be fixed with some more meditation to refine the whole awareness process.

Then, of course there's always the surrender and the trust in a 'power greater than myself' to know what is best for me and leave it up to that to give my life some purpose and meaning, rather than thinking I have any purpose apart from it.

Yes, although the urge to fix comes from adverse reactivity, and reactivity disrupts mindful equanimity. The surrender sounds more to the point, as that is definitively the end of mental reactivity, meditation being the cessation such reactions, and surrender being the release of personal controls such as fixing everything. That is a great trust like you say. It probably defines trust itself.