Gautama Siddhartha

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

("Since the practice of Tantra focuses on the transformation of poisons into wisdom, the yogic circles came together in tantric feasts, often in sacred sites (pitha) and places (ksetra) which included dancing, singing, consort practices and the ingestion of taboo substances like alcohol, urine, and meat.")

The 'transformation of poisons' mimics the scriptures added at the end of the Gospel of Mark which talks about drinking poison as an identifying mark of a Christian.

[BigJohn]

A question of importance is: which document was written first?
I believe it was Mark.

[BigJohn]

Which leads to the next question: Was one document copied from the other document?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I went to some Tibetan Buddhist meetings in NYC where tantric practices were discussed and it is quite different in the depths from what is presented in that article.

The description of Tantric in that article would not appeal to me at all personally. On the one hand, I can see how it could be used to transcend but the danger is that it could also be a way of justifying indulgence. I won't judge, but I personally would not be drawn to such gatherings. ("Since the practice of Tantra focuses on the transformation of poisons into wisdom, the yogic circles came together in tantric feasts, often in sacred sites (pitha) and places (ksetra) which included dancing, singing, consort practices and the ingestion of taboo substances like alcohol, urine, and meat.")

And the Three Poisons seem to be different in various Buddhist Schools.
I prefer the Title ' Three Unwholesome Roots ' because I can use ' Weedkiller ' to start with

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Which leads to the next question: Was one document copied from the other document?

That's a good question? Was one document copied from another?

However, I attempt to validate as best as possible (either directly or vicariously) whatever resonates most ... and that's good enough for me since there does not seem to be a way to know what the original preaching actually was (unless one can read the "akashic records".

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

And the Three Poisons seem to be different in various Buddhist Schools.
I prefer the Title ' Three Unwholesome Roots ' because I can use ' Weedkiller ' to start with

I too prefer the terms "wholesome" and "unwholesome" as used in vary Buddhist texts.

Those terms have implications regarding the vantage point from which the Reality is perceived.

[pixiedust]

Your wisdom and candor is a welcome breath of fresh air in this section, Still Waters

[sentient]

Some thoughts on Jhanas ….

Even though I really do enjoy Ajahn Brahm’s talks, Leigh Brasington’s description of the Jhanas is so step-by-step comprehensible.
Imo. The impermanence and letting go also becomes evident.

From the object of meditation (which can be variety of things), but let’s say the breath in the nostrils – to not noticing breathing anymore – to letting go into the pleasant sensation of ‘going under’ …… (& this might be an ego-freak-out point for some, in which case the whole exercise is diverted into an exercise of endurance of pain whilst holding fast onto the consciousness of breath).

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But somehow, I have never quite entered into the 2nd and the 3rd Jhana & bypassing those, entered into the 4th instead … (But maybe this is just how Leigh explains the 2nd and the 3rd).

I suppose the 2nd and the 3rd Jhana could become “self-indulgent”?
One Tibetan Buddhist Centre I went to, there was a resident meditator there who seemed ‘stuck’ on “glee & joy”, a very self-satisfied state like a cat that had just eaten the canary.

Similarly, me thinks, one can also get ‘stuck’ holding onto the effort of staying mindful of the breath & not trusting to let go.
So, I guess this way these Jhanas can also represent and show us where our ‘fear barriers’ are.
And perhaps “selling Dharma to others” – might be us “selling” our own fear barriers, which keep us in our specific ‘corral’.

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I think I had coined up a name for the 4th as “the switchboard”, because from that totally neutral stillness point one can intend where to go & switch into the subconscious energy-body. (A bit like Yoga Nidra).
From there the “windhorse” takes one into “seeing” (experiencing without an experiencer) something. And once “seen” – the trusty horse brings one back and the mind afterwards downloads the experience into words and concepts.

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The 5th ad the 6th Jhanas “The Sphere of Limitless Space and the Limitless Consciousness” – those I see as Ever-Present, whether intuited or sensed by the experiencer or experienced directly without the experiencer. Experiencer having become a point Zero.

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Though I’m not entirely sure what I have been saying here, so it is a sketch.
Bought a Blue Cheese dip by accident & ate some of it before I went to sleep. Then having had vivid awake dreams/hallucinations - I don’t think I have quite woken up from them as yet.
But then again, maybe it wasn’t an accident. Who knows (?)

When it rains – let’s do rain.
When things get ambiguous - let’s do _____________.


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[pixiedust]

I've never been a fan of Ajahn Brahm.

he's put up tons of videos on youtube in the last few years so i cant find it anymore but there used to be a video this woman made who was visiting his community and they were serving fried pork for lunch, i dunno why but that seemed odd to me for an enlightened buddhist monk.