Do you agree with the free will concept?

Originally Posted by Osyris

A large percentage of our psyche belongs to the subconscious, early life experiences also play a big role in our decisions in life so we don't have as much free will as we'd like. Our DNA configuration and events during early childhood prepare many of our decisions in the deepest part of us, before the conscious part simply express them. Of course no one likes or accepts this, we love to believe our 15% of conscious is in control but...

Yup. Genetics and a lifetime of experience conditions the mind and shapes personality, temperament, belief systems and an overall worldview. We have the Freudian view how Ego moderates the demands of Id and Superego based on reality, but that's only an interpretation of reality based on conditioning of mind.

This is all going on below the surface in the subconscious but it does give rise to cues in the conscious. The problem is our conscious minds are so chaotic these cues are largely missed or when not missed simply ignored. One approach to being more cognizant of these cues is still the mind.

It's like tossing a stone into a lake. If the lake is turbulent the ripples can't be seen, but if it's calm they are easily seen. Then one at least has a chance to exercise true free will.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Yup. Genetics and a lifetime of experience conditions the mind and shapes personality, temperament, belief systems and an overall worldview. We have the Freudian view how Ego moderates the demands of Id and Superego based on reality, but that's only an interpretation of reality based on conditioning of mind.

This is all going on below the surface in the subconscious but it does give rise to cues in the conscious. The problem is our conscious minds are so chaotic these cues are largely missed or when not missed simply ignored. One approach to being more cognizant of these cues is still the mind.

It's like tossing a stone into a lake. If the lake is turbulent the ripples can't be seen, but if it's calm they are easily seen. Then one at least has a chance to exercise true free will.

I can't totally agree. I grew up in a family are hardcore hunters, Harley riders, church going and didn't like anyone but white people. I was raised that way as well. But I am not any of those. If that's the case, why aren't I that way?

Originally Posted by hallow

I can't totally agree. I grew up in a family are hardcore hunters, Harley riders, church going and didn't like anyone but white people. I was raised that way as well. But I am not any of those. If that's the case, why aren't I that way?

Although that was a large part of your experience it wasn't the only part of your experience. You had friends, neighbors, teachers, classmates, media and the entire world around you pouring experience into you through your various senses, much if it subconsciously incorporated into your being. They all blended into your makeup. Perhaps you inherited some recessive genetics that made you more predisposed to influences outside family life?

Both mom and dad grew up during the great depression. Mom was a very religious Roman Catholic and dad was a very hard-working provider who did the right thing by his family.

I strayed far off the reservation, so to speak. I dumped religion and was an irresponsible wild & crazy party type through my mid-30s, and that was largely an influence of my peers and the overall culture of the 70s.

EDIT: Oh, one other thing. I was adopted so I definitely didn't inherit mom and dad's genetics.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Although that was a large part of your experience it wasn't the only part of your experience. You had friends, neighbors, teachers, classmates, media and the entire world around you pouring experience into you through your various senses, much if it subconsciously incorporated into your being. They all blended into your makeup. Perhaps you inherited some recessive genetics that made you more predisposed to influences outside family life?

Both mom and dad grew up during the great depression. Mom was a very religious Roman Catholic and dad was a very hard-working provider who did the right thing by his family.

I strayed far off the reservation, so to speak. I dumped religion and was an irresponsible wild & crazy party type through my mid-30s, and that was largely an influence of my peers and the overall culture of the 70s.

Yes, also freewill comes to play. All the steps you took to the point where you are now, you chosen. You found out what you liked and you didn't. The term freewill can be a vag one. Freewill leads to cause and effect, = experience. That is always on going. Negative or positive if you like the effect there's a good chance you'll keep doing the cause but useing freewill. It's a whole combination of things that can be labeled along with freewill. That's how I see it.

Originally Posted by hallow

Yes, also freewill comes to play. All the steps you took to the point where you are now, you chosen. You found out what you liked and you didn't. The term freewill can be a vag one. Freewill leads to cause and effect, = experience. That is always on going. Negative or positive if you like the effect there's a good chance you'll keep doing the cause but useing freewill. Least that how I see it.

Just because we do something doesn't mean we executed free will. There was one point in my wild and crazy years I did, and that was when I enlisted in the Air Force and even then it was a gentle nudge by my cousin's husband who was also an Air Force recruiter.

An example: When someone cuts us off in traffic and we go ballistic that's not free will. We had other much better and more productive choices but we mindlessly reacted to the demands of Id. Free will is a higher brain function and going ballistic like that is a function of the reptilian part of the brain.

EDIT: Now that I'm no longer on probation and can post links I can't resist. :-) https://youtu.be/5Cgm9ZoXdrA?list=PL...k8T0lU4K1eE F

[hallow]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Just because we do something doesn't mean we executed free will. There was one point in my wild and crazy years I did, and that was when I enlisted in the Air Force and even then it was a gentle nudge by my cousin's husband who was also an Air Force recruiter.

An example: When someone cuts us off in traffic and we go ballistic that's not free will. We had other much better and more productive choices but we mindlessly reacted to the demands of Id. Free will is a higher brain function and going ballistic like that is a function of the reptilian part of the brain.

EDIT: Now that I'm no longer on probation and can post links I can't resist. :-) https://youtu.be/5Cgm9ZoXdrA?list=PL...k8T0lU4K1eE F

The song is wonderful! I love Rush. No you don't choose to have someone cut you off in traffic. But you do choose how to deal with it. And yes our reptilian brain is alive and well. But hey, we're only human. Hahaha

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

It doesn't matter what island a person comes from. We should free everyone. Not just Will.

Thanks ocean breeze.

I love to be surprised with laughter.

Originally Posted by hallow

The song is wonderful! I love Rush.

My two favorite groups are Zeppelin and Rush. Two amazingly talented groups. That song is in a playlist on my YouTube channel and the next song is from my third most favorite band, Heart. It's "Dream of the Archer" and John Paul Jones of Zeppelin fame is playing mandolin with Nancy Wilson.

Neil Peart is quite the amateur philosopher and a very good lyricist and I love the Cygnus X-1 duology. It's actually quite profound, as is Freewill.

Originally Posted by hallow

No you don't choose to have someone cut you off in traffic. But you do choose how to deal with it. And yes our reptilian brain is alive and well. But hey, we're only human. Hahaha

Depends how you identify "you". Is it the higher brain functions of the cerebral cortex or the lower brain functions of the brain stem? Or is it something entirely different - awareness? LOL!

Free will is hard in today's society,but you have the choice of what you want to do with your life.(Up to a point).Though events will probably steer you in the right direction.

A test of the "traffic scenario" is after you calm down are you proud or ashamed of how you reacted? I'd posit if it's shame than free will wasn't in evidence.