Joint pain and inflammation

[Podshell]

May be of use to others though, especially the B vit stuff if someone is using alcohol regularly and is vegan.

Something hit me a few years back, blood tests didn't show much, it could have been B vit problem due to alcohol, I don't know but it was not nice.

I have always drank milk, used butter and cheeses , have live yoghurt everyday but someone who is vegan or veggie who cannot tolerate these things and overuse alcohol may be storing problems up

[skygazer]

Podshell, as my grandma would say, you have the patience of a saint. I salute your perseverance and composure

[nummi]

Originally Posted by Podshell

but in the meantime here is what Srila Prabhupada has to say on the eating of meat and killing of plants.

Why should I care what thinks some person who has no business in this discussion here. What that person says or thinks is absolutely irrelevant regarding this here.

This here is primarily a discussion between you and me. Not once have I seen that person give any input in person in this discussion.
I give my own opinions, not someone else's. I would expect you give your own opinions as well, and not someone else's.

As long as you hold someone else's opinion, as you apparently do, you don't really have your own. Make your own mind.

And if you say your own mind you need to be able to explain it yourself, not use someone else's opinions as an explanation.

You are using someone else's opinions to try to justify yourself. How about using yourself, your own mind, for this?

I don't care what people external to this discussion have to say about this topic, because this discussion here is not between "you and me and them, and other people who are giving no personal input", this is between "you and me and those who in person give personal input here".

If we went your way, and included everyones opinions, on this planet, regarding this topic, then guess what kind of opinions there would be more of... Not your kind.
The "bringing others opinions to justify my own" you have lost long before you even began, before you even were born. So best not to even begin it.

[Podshell]

The person I linked to is an accepted authority on Vedic literature (That includes karma)

So do you want my inferior opinions or the real answers?

(I am sure that Srila Prabhupada's words are not opinions but directly based on the knowledge contained in the vedas)

[Podshell]

I think the quote below shows the problems of trying to go it alone.


(it is a better way of explaining it than I know of, so please feel free to point out any flaws in it)

from here
http://www.prabhupada.org.uk/sp_expo...ny_science.htm


." There was once a frog who had lived all his life in a well. One day a friend visited him and informed him of the existence of the Atlantic Ocean.
"Oh, what is this Atlantic Ocean?" asked the frog in the well.
"It is a vast body of water," his friend replied.
"How vast? ls it double the size of this well?"
"Oh, no, much larger," his friend replied.
"How much larger? Ten times the size?"
In this way the frog went on calculating. But what was the possibility of his ever understanding the depths and far reaches of the great ocean? Our faculties, experience, and powers of speculation are always limited. The frog was always thinking in terms relative to his well. He had no power to think otherwise. Similarly, the scientists are estimating the Absolute Truth, the cause of all causes, with their imperfect senses and minds, and thus they are bound to be bewildered. The essential fault of the so-called scientists is that they have adopted the inductive process to arrive at their conclusions. For example, if a scientist wants to determine whether or not man is mortal by the inductive process, he must study every man to try to discover if some or one of them may be immortal. The scientist says, "I cannot accept the proposition that all men are mortal. There may be some men who are immortal. I have not yet seen every man. Therefore how can I accept that man is mortal?" This is called the inductive process. And the deductive process means that your father, your teacher, or your guru says that man is mortal, and you accept it.
Dr. Singh: So there is an ascending process of gaining knowledge and a descending process?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. The ascending process will never be successful, because it relies on information gathered through the senses, and the senses are imperfect. So we accept the descending process.

[nummi]

Originally Posted by Podshell

Oh and regarding 'Parroting' , are you going to stick to your 'B12 problem' mantra or accept official scientific analysis like this one

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?t...2%80%99%20milk

Considering I have personal experiences in this... After not having eaten fish or animal organs for some weeks (as they contain more B12, also saturated fat and O3 plays a role, and animal proteins), and then eating them and noticing my mind getting somewhat sharper and clearer. B12 because it is a most primary thing the brain needs plenty of to function right.
Many others have experienced the same. If you don't try, if you don't test things out, you can never know with such certainty, and you can never know whether what others say is actually true or not. Though once enough truthful experiences are acquired, it might from one point onward be unnecessary to "test it out".
If you test out only certain things, according to certain dogma, then all you can ever come to really know are those that accord that certain dogma.

I've seen what meats do to me. I work well on meats, very well. I also need plants.
I've seen what higher amounts of plants do, while smaller amounts of meat. It wrecks my system, and then it takes up to 2 weeks to heal from it. This experience more than once.

How about you stop your mantra? And actually start considering and thinking over what I've said?
The opinions I have include what you hold true in a way that does not contradict what I've also said about meat and how it fits the picture. Because there are people who truly work well avoiding meat, but few people not most as you claim.
The symptoms of such dieting, that you hold, not working are many on you. Sure, you got many things right, but are blinded by certain dogma, thus the right things aside are doing other things wrong, thus health issues and mental unclarity and "logical fallacies" that you don't even notice.

Essentially, you are arguing your own unawareness.

You're not even considering, at all, what I have been saying. And I've said a lot. You are ignoring and denying and avoiding without putting any thought into any of this, and barely giving your own personal opinions. And there are some severe "logical fallacies" from you. And other negative qualities. These are qualities I don't like, because they make discussing things nearly impossible.
Not the first time taking this type of ride... I've seen this type of mentality and development of "discussion" before, many times. Each time I explain and explain and explain, and each time the responses I get are so lacking and not the opponents true personal opinions (because they don't have any personal opinions?). There has always been the inclusion of totally irrelevant things. And there are many questions I ask that never get answered... And always there are links, links to other peoples opinions (I never do this)... Why? Can't you explain things yourself; can't you give your own explanations? You own mind? Or this "no real own mind" is your mind?
A simple conclusion is that you simply don't know yourself. That all you really do, and do best, is parrot others.

Unlike you I don't simply blindly believe whatever fits my "wishful thinking". I go for the reasons and causes why it should be or not, and cover whatever angles and perspectives I am aware of and can find (for me this is a very quick mental process). Angles and perspectives that are not influenced by any dogma.
This "aware of" is a significant issue regarding your perception of all this. As has come out, I'm more aware than you, thus my opinions are more comprehensive, more accurate, as is also obvious from all the previous.
But since you lack equivalent or better awareness, you cannot see this. And you're not even trying to see whether you might be wrong. You just want to argue, and justify your own flaws. Being wrong hurts, doesn't it? I've too been wrong many many times... It does hurt, in the beginning, then it stops hurting, as becomes obvious that have to correct oneself and it is the right thing to do, so being wrong is welcome because the result is bettering oneself.
I've said quite a lot, over and over, bringing out my own awareness regarding this... Awareness that includes even your points to the extent they are true, but without being in contradiction with other points I am aware of. You on the other hand are stretching yours too far, and not taking into consideration many factors and many obvious details you apparently are blind to, or simply deny because accepting yourself to be wrong would be accepting that you've lived your life wrong for many many years and thus would hurt a lot?

By denying a lot that is obvious, you are denying yourself higher awareness.

[nummi]

Originally Posted by Podshell

The person I linked to is an accepted authority on Vedic literature (That includes karma)

So do you want my inferior opinions or the real answers?

(I am sure that Srila Prabhupada's words are not opinions but directly based on the knowledge contained in the vedas)

I've already explained about "authority"... Way to go that you ignored all that...

You think the vedas has knowledge about absolutely everything that is in existence and that what it says is all and only that apply to all that is?
It's the same thing many bible... guys... do. They say "I or he, or she, or that priest, etc." is right because the bible says so.
How about your own mind?

You regard your opinions as inferior?? Alright... things coming into perspective...

As you hold yourself as inferior to someone else, you are essentially holding yourself as their slaves.
So as the master says, the subject does.
I don't want to be your master, or anyone's! So no point to fear being yourself of less awareness than me. Read, think, learn, grow. But don't parrot, unless a slave is all you want to be.
Since you hold true only one master's (or are there more?) opinions, then anyone else who says anything else you will simply deny and oppose because it did not come from your master.

With this you essentially proved you literally lack your own mind... What I've essentially been saying all along... because it is obvious...

Willful, yet unaware, slavery of mind.

WOW! Amazing not in a good way, and the first time I've seen this.

[nummi]

Originally Posted by Adrienne

Simple solution really ...........Then why continue ? LOL !

neither one of you is going to convince the other one, so why not just agree to disagree and move on ?

I certainly won't repeat the main subject over. And many other things I've said.
There are some more angles, some more things, not touched, but not that many.
Seems to go to the source of his willful denying of the obvious...
I suppose I will stop when is the time, whenever that comes... Probably soon.

But will be much shorter responses as most has been said.

I'm not after convincing. What I'm after is that he just consider what he is not even trying to look at. That he use his own mind.

And it's a good way to see myself, and my own flaws. There are some...

[Podshell]

Considering I have personal experiences in this... After not having eaten fish or animal organs for some weeks (as they contain more B12, also saturated fat and O3 plays a role, and animal proteins), and then eating them and noticing my mind getting somewhat sharper and clearer. B12 because it is a most primary thing the brain needs plenty of to function right.
Many others have experienced the same. If you don't try, if you don't test things out, you can never know with such certainty, and you can never know whether what others say is actually true or not. Though once enough truthful experiences are acquired, it might from one point onward be unnecessary to "test it out".
If you test out only certain things, according to certain dogma, then all you can ever come to really know are those that accord that certain dogma.

Yes I have done this , in the past I sometimes had fairly long periods of vegetarianism and some spells of meat eating, my conclusion was if I needed meat I didn't need much at all, and also I could use milk and its products instead for the B vits which I opted for.

How about you stop your mantra? And actually start considering and thinking over what I've said?
The opinions I have include what you hold true in a way that does not contradict what I've also said about meat and how it fits the picture. Because there are people who truly work well avoiding meat, but few people not most as you claim.
The symptoms of such dieting, that you hold, not working are many on you. Sure, you got many things right, but are blinded by certain dogma, thus the right things aside are doing other things wrong, thus health issues and mental unclarity and "logical fallacies" that you don't even notice.

This is an extract from your first post on this thread

" Avoiding eating meat is a very bad decision...."


Over time we have established respected banks of knowledge, I see the discussion remaining very shallow if you are going to ignore these. like the frog in the well, you are never going to even look at the Atlantic ocean, nevermind exploring its depths you are just going to keep speculating.

And exploring that is not 'Blindly believing , that is making an effort while opening your eyes.

So who is the slave? You shackled by the walls of the well or me who has actually gone and looked at bigger oceans of knowledge?

[Golden Eagle]

Nothing will come close to the Power of GRACE ........

Once it healed me completely head to toe and i did not have to eat right or exercise ,though it taught me to better care for my body , mind and spirit afterward!

I had to face the toughest emotional rubbish no one should have to endure .... but all of us are here and we carry these wounds deep in our unconscious and they must rise to conscious awareness to be fully felt before we can let them go ~!

It is a journey ....use the pain to grow and keep growing