Kundalini & Chakras

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Priestess of Mahakala

Kashmir Shaivism is slightly different from the tamil system (saiva siddhanta) ... or virasaiva..... (I suspect) The main difference is in relation to Anavamala and Maya...also in the relationship between shiva and shakti...
(as I understand the topic...)
In virasaiva the relationship between Shiva and Sakti "difference-cum-non-difference" (Sakti- visistadvayta), so Vimarsasakti is accepted like dharma of Brahman. It is a form of "awareness" of Siva.. @I exist, i appear, I am [email protected]e are direct actions of Vimarsasakti
In advaita vedanta of Shankara sat/cit/ananda - are qualities or svarupa of Brahman...I suspect....
But as I see in virasaiva, like saiva siddhante, this relationship is not quite "direct"...because Parasiva cannot have direct experience of sat, cit and ananda....nevertheless Vimarsasakti directs these feelings ( I exist, i appear, I am delighted) into himself... Parasiva is a crystal...but in this school relationship between Vimarsasakti and him are "difference-cum-non-difference"...And Saiva siiddhanta calls itself Suddhadvaita. (dvaita devoid of duality)
But in Kashmir Shaivism (paradvaita) this relationship are "non-difference". Vimarsasakti or spandasakti in form of cit becomes a mirror for Paramasiva (crystal), in form of awareness (I exist)... This system is called paradvaita...
After all this Vimarsasakti in virasaiva becomes Kalaaa-sakti with six forces: cit-sakti, para-sakti, adi-sakti, iccha-sakti, jnana sakti and kriya-sakti (in Kasmir 5 forces)....Kalaaa-sakti - is the energy of evolution....(There also exists the energy of involution Bhakti-sakti with six reverse powers)
Single sthala (Parasiva) breaks up and becomes Linga (Siva) and Anga (jiva)
So Kalaaa-sakti becomes avidya-maya..In virasaiva iccha-sakti, jnana sakti and kriya-sakti of Kalasakti comes in contact with 3 malas.
1. Anavamala – The contraction of the Icchasakti of Parasiva is itself Anavamala.
2. Mayiyamala – The contracted Jnanasakti of Parasiva is itself Mayiyamala.
3 Karmamala – The contracted Kriyasakti of Parasiva is itself the Kärmamala.
In saiva siddhanta it is anava-sakti... In saiva-siddanta (tamil) anavamala is dravya...it can not be seen... it is primordial eternal evil (acit)...but mayamala can be seen (in theory)... three mayas are also described here (suddha-maya, asuddha-maya and prakriti-maya) Mayamala is also dravya (acit) in this school. The source of mayamala is anavamala...
So....kundalini - is this Vimarsasakti which becomes Kalaaa-sakti and associated with 3 malas. Bindu-kundalini is the "material form" of Kalaaa-sakti (bindu-kundalini) In virashivaism it is also called bindu-maya....So Kalaaa-sakti creates worlds (bhuvans) and she is also one of 5 Kanchukas (kalaaa), limits omnipotence (7 tattva in Kasmir, 9 tattva in Saiva siddhanta).... Siva and Sakti tattvas (1-2 tattvas) on some systems possess 15 world (kalaaa)...
The form of chakras are made from maya-rupa (Mayamala herself has it source in eternal mala) and in every chakra there is mini-bindu... So this is the garland of Kali... it is called varnamala...
All bindu add up to one single parabindu... but there is also aparabindu as i understood from Chandra-Jnana-Agama.
transcendental nada/transcendental bindu
emerged nada(apara nada)/emerged bindu (apara bindu)

Ok... the major danger in calling kundalini out, is hidden in mala...
Wheels start spinning faster and mala becomes active because chakra form itself is mayamala....so its laya-yoga.... which aims at dissolving the body....main signs are: ghurni "vibrant whirling", nidra "spiritual sleep", kampa trembling and the body also loses heat in various parts...all heat flows down to the crown
Oh, well, but some souls do not possess maya bodies?!...Hm...if so, I don’t even know if they have chakras?! In saiva siddhanta there are 3 type of souls: vijnanakalas (poses anavamala alone), pralayakalas (have maya in addition in Tirumantiram) and sakals (have 3 malas).. in Kashmir Shaivism, the gradation is different(akala, mantra-mahesvara, mantresvara, vidyesvara, vijnanakalas, pralayakalas, sakalas) (But for saiva siddhanta, as I understood @mantra-mahesvara, mantresvara, vidyesvara@ - classified as vijnanakalas souls.....)
This darkness (mala) is invisible and if karmic knots (granthi) are strongly tied, when kundalini rises.....then the soul falls even more under power of anavamala.

You are indeed very learned about such things.

The two main branches of Mantra Marga Shaivism are Kapalika Saivism and Saiva Siddhanta.

The Kaula and Trika schools are offshoots of the Kapalika sect, while Saiva Siddhanta went on to form the various schools of Tamil thought on Shaivism including Virashaivism which, remarkably, has links to the Adimarga lineage in regards to Lingayatism.

There is a picture of that somewhere I used years ago....let me see if I can find it:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ofShaivism.jpg

Although I have no real path or associations, going through all of the schools of Kaula Saivism, the one that I associate with the most is the Dakshina Marga.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantra_marga

The Trika school of Shaivism was developed from Shaktism and was pretty much of the Kaula Shakti Marg before being associated with Shaivism proper.

In the Trika school, it is indeed the case of the connection to Shiva...to the Divine principle within being obscured by Mayamala due to the influence of the three Shaktis of Iccha, Kriya and Jnana (Tripurasundari).

In the Dakshina, Pashupata and Aghor traditions, the obfuscation of the knowledge of Brahman..of Bhairava is the result of the 8 aṣṭamahāpāśa or psychic fetters (nooses)..fear, hate, anger, lust, greed, pride, sloth & sensual indulgence. This was more than likely adapted from the Svetasvatara Upanishad..and it is the result of these defilements which can be categorised further into their relative Shaktis or energies according to Vimarshashakti, either Anavamala, Mayiyamala and Karmamala respectively as the resultant Avidya Maya...that is, impurity in thought, intention and action.

This is the way I learned it.

This leads us on to Pashu-Pati-Pasa

https://www.saivism.net/articles/patipasu.asp

The explanation given in that article is far better than I could ever try and give it so as to be understood by others, not just yourself.

Anyway, I definitely will have more to add to this soon, but my mother is calling me for lunch and I need to clean my flat, wash the dog and all that.

Namaste

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

It's good to study.

I like to study a lot of traditions. Dzogchen, KS, Mystical Christianity and Taoism.

It's good to know what you are talking about. It's good that you don't just make things up or lead others in the wrong direction.

I would agree that the practice is what is important. Always going deeper, never wanting an experience or getting stuck on an experience. That is very good advice. It is that wanting, that desire which will always keep it away.

It is my experiences, my realizations that have lead me to study, to learn from the great masters that came before me to better understand what I was experiencing. I highly encourage everyone to do the same.

your speaking from your expereince. which may or may not be relative to somebody elses. i have no idea why desire, or wanting are problems for you. its totally unimaginable in my expereince. but i have taken your word for it. its harder for me to imagine if its not a problem for you, that you would say it is.

for people without that problem. these things that are a problem for you are a catalyst for them. for some others perhaps neutral. its very possible to want and be open simultaneously for some people is basicly what im trying to say. maybe im the only one on the planet but i find that unlikely.

i would also say simple things that are easy to understand dont require lots of words sometimes speaking in circles about something. which can and seem more often than not lead people in the wrong direction. perhaps not for you. but pretty much everyone else i come across. that has been my experience anyways and think i have mentioned it before. but worth mentioning again. as its perhaps the biggest problem i see. hopefully im proven wrong and it begins to due as intended. although i wonder about the depth of experience from some of the authors of the material out there that has become so popular among enthusiasts.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

@ running ... as Buddha has said ‘it does not matter what path we take as long as we get to the roots’ or words to that effect, which are quoted right here in the channelling section on Q&A with Gautam’s Buddha

Who judges who evaluates
We know not as we meditate
In ecstatic rapture as bliss elates

***

[running]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

@ running ... as Buddha has said ‘it does not matter what path we take as long as we get to the roots’ or words to that effect, which are quoted right here in the channelling section on Q&A with Gautam’s Buddha

Who judges who evaluates
We know not as we meditate
In ecstatic rapture as bliss elates

***

thank you for sharing!

[Priestess of Mahakala]

The Relationship of Difference and Non-difference
While all the schools of Saivism accept Siva and jiva to be essentially the same, sharing intrinsically the same consciousness, there are variations in the manner in which they interpret the relationship between two. According to Kashmiri Saivism the relationship between Siva and Jiva is one of bheda-abheda, which means they are different yet not different. To explain the relationship, followers of this school use the analogy of a mirror and the objects that are reflected in it. A mirror reflects the objects in itself. We cannot separate the mirror from its reflection. We cannot strictly say that the reflection is the mirror itself. Yet we cannot separate the two also. Similarly the jivas thrive in Siva like a reflection.

Well, I think you can highlight the relationship between:
1) Siva and Sakti...(Brahman)
2) God (Siva) and the souls...(jiva-atman)
in Shaiva systems a lot depends in what relationship Paramasiva is with his own nirguna shakti (mirror) ...and only then is it all projected into the relationship of God and souls...
We can think that shiva and shakti are one unit....but this is not so obvious in the tradition of virashaivism....

First of all Vimarsasakti is nirguna-sakti as sat/cit/ananda, as awareness of Paramasiva, but Saguna Brahman when she becomes Icchasakti and Kalasakti....

But fundamentally, Paramashiva relationship with own Vimarsasakti (nirguna-sakti) are "difference-cum-non-difference" (not with jivas!...)....He is different from Vimarsasakti and at the same time no.....( it's a little weird)....
in kashmir the relationship between Siva and his own Sakti-nirguna are of prakasha and Vimarsasakti...absolute advaita (paradvaita)....it is much easier to understand...

I'm not writing about god’s relationship with souls right now. (because it depends on the relationship between shiva and shakti)....but the relationship of god in himself....(Shiva's own relationship with Shakti in the mirror of Vimarsasakti)....
This is the main problem...
In advaita vedanta "shakti" is not considered as Atman nevertheless sat/cit/ananda - are nirguna qualities of Brahman...

But in virashivaism (as in kashmir) sat/cit/ananda - is Vimarsasakti activity in the shape of a mirror for Paramasiva....so that he can see "i exist".....so it is the svarupa form of Brahman.... Vimarsasakti is the "dharma" Of Paramasiva and Siva is the dharmin....but!! (this is the main thing!, as I understand it)....relations between Shiva and Shakti are very mysterious....we can say that they are equal, but at the same time nooooo....
In tamil saiva siddhanta this relationship between Paramasiva and his Nirguna-sakti are even more controversial...since the system is called "dvaita devoid of duality" or Suddhadvaita.....so there is the relation of unity in difference (tadatmya or inherence).....

after this relationship has been identified, you can go to the relationship of god and the soul... since the soul has a spark of shiva (and siva is inseparable from sakti....) this relationship is also school dependent....
In saiva siddhanta soul can't become paramasiva itself, therefore their relationship is different (souls are many and they are eternal, although the soul is of the nature of Sivas light, the soul cannot completely become one with God)....but the relationship between siva and shakti-nirguna (Vimarsasakti) is tadatmya....Hm....
In Kasmir the relation with Siva and Sakti are absolute (paradvaita), but the relation beetwen souls and Siva are "difference and non-difference"

but in general.... on the topic of kundalinin... Its kalaaasakti....which comes in contact with mala (evil stuff).....creates bindu-kundlaini (material form or Logos)....But nada/bindu different from Vimarsasakti (nirguna-sakti)...it is a clay with sound...

either Anavamala, Mayiyamala and Karmamala respectively as the resultant Avidya Maya...that is, impurity in thought, intention and action.

interesting.....that avidya and maya in advaita vedanta had a different meaning....
But In saiva siddhanta it is an apophatic eternal substance (anava or avidya) , as i understood....
In tamil it is autonomous from shiva. It is also not sakti (cit), it is acit.....
but she contacts with powers of Kalasakti... .
Shiva is eternal and mala (anava) is eternal... mala is acit (dravya)....she also cannot be seen.
There is also anavamala state (kevala) in which souls sleeping in a web of primordial sleep (not normal sushupti) where only anava mala is active ....Its mahapralaya (maha-sushupti), this state, described as active even during brahma day....it leads to different thoughts...
this is considered as the worst condition for the soul...There is no kala, no guna, nor mayamala, nor karmamala...Only anavamala is active and soul can't experience anything....."fear, hate, anger, lust, greed, pride, sloth & sensual indulgence"... these feelings are created during sakala period ....as 28 hells, 7 patalas and higher worlds are being created.... with myriads brahmandas.....

Originally Posted by Priestess of Mahakala

In virashivaism (as in kashmir) sat/cit/ananda - is Vimarsasakti activity in the shape of a mirror for Paramasiva....so that he can see "i exist".....

Hello Priestess of Mahakala, if you have time and you know, I would like to know why in the first place Paramasiva wanted to see that “I exist”?

Regards

[Priestess of Mahakala]

Hello Priestess of Mahakala, if you have time and you know, I would like to know why in the first place Paramasiva wanted to see that “I exist”?
Regards

Well, as i understoodit, it is self awareness of Siva... who is prakasha (crystal).... the crystal would be inert if not the action of Vimarsasakti in form of sat/cit/ananda....
(sat - existence...@So I exiest@, cit - intelligence and ananda bliss)...
which directs them to the crystal (prakasha)... so prakasha shines and illuminates all the tattvas....Siva (lustre)/Sakti (reasoning)...
their relationship between them may be: paradvaita, suddhadvaita or saktivisistadvayta....
(But In Advaita Vedanta nigrina Brahman does not possess shakti....despite this.... sat-cit-ananda are svarupa of Brahman nirguna).

in virasaiva there are 6 sakti attached to Parasiva: сit-shakti, para-sakti, adi-sakti, Iccha-sakti, jnanasakti and kriya-sakti,
But only сit-shakti is ‘dharma’ of Pramasiva in form of sat/cit/ananda as vimarsasakti....
Then she becomes Kalaaaasakti...(binds to mala).... further she creates a vision of object - bindu....it is material.....

Originally Posted by Priestess of Mahakala

The crystal would be inert if not the action of Vimarsasakti in form of sat/cit/ananda....

Are sat/cit/ananda Unborn as is the crystal Unborn?

[Priestess of Mahakala]

Are sat/cit/ananda Unborn as is the crystal Unborn?

yeah.... but only like dharma of Brahman Nirguna....
but the Buddha would have beaten me for such words....!
definitely not in Theravada! or shunyavada...(mahayana)....but rather the opposite.....

But yogachara (chittamatra)....especially Tathagatagarbha...Uttaratantra....very close to Kasmir school....
Tathagatagarbha is not even against the concept of "atman" , but understands it completely differently..
Absolute reality is called Ekacitta (one mind) and it possesses "guna" (good qualities) Also it is empty (sunya).. Ekacitta also has attributes: constancy, bliss and self (Atman)... but "atman" is not a soul for garbha.
For them faith in the soul is "Atma-moha"... misconception.....so you don’t have a soul....

Originally Posted by Priestess of Mahakala

yeah.... but only like dharma of Brahman Nirguna....
but the Buddha would have beaten me for such words....!
definitely not in Theravada! or shunyavada...(mahayana)....but rather the opposite.....

But yogachara (chittamatra)....especially Tathagatagarbha...Uttaratantra....very close to Kasmir school....
Tathagatagarbha is not even against the concept of "atman" , but understands it completely differently..
Absolute reality is called Ekacitta (one mind) and it possesses "guna" (good qualities) Also it is empty (sunya).. Ekacitta also has attributes: constancy, bliss and self (Atman)... but "atman" is not a soul for garbha.
For them faith in the soul is "Atma-moha"... misconception.....so you don’t have a soul....

Thank you for sharing knowledge.

Still don't know if Brahman truly "exist" in the "form" of Nirguna Brahman or rather Saguna Brahman.

This ignorance of mine is what keeps "me" coming back for many lifetimes before and to come, until i "know" the answer.

Until then I play dice or chess trying to maintain the board. If it turns out that Brahman is only Nirguma Brahman, I will let the board, that never existed in the first place, simply vanish.

Nothing to loose playing this game of chess, only unique flowers with no names to watch growing in all their beauty.

Regards