Eckhart Tolle

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

Speak for yourself.

There are many people who can and that takes practice, consistent practice, but it can and does happen for many.

Some are on this forum and as far as I can see, even if you were helped by some of these kind folk, you wouldn't be ready to see that. Would probably say "I'm right"

JL

I sense a fear in him...a fear that we have all been through, which still raises its head in me from time to time...so I honestly get it.

The fear of losing "who we think/believe we are" to become "something other than that".

Our ego holds on for dear life, making every excuse under the sun as to why this cannot happen or is not so...it is like the proverbial monkey with his hand stuck in the peanut jar.

They see Morpheus and go "just give me the blue pill" and then, they try to reason with everyone else who has taken the red one...meanwhile, Shivani is saying "Join the dark side...we have cookies there (and cake too FYI)".

The ego is afraid of losing control, so it debunks everything from Jesus to Shakti with a "if that is going to tip me over the edge, I don't want it"...so, rather than saying "I am scared" how about we say "It is all woo"? That works! Let me see how much sand I can keep in the sieve I have here..."oohh...somebody just said "samadhi is a vegetative state"....that will protect me from having to see so for myself...cool! Let's agree with them...yeah, let's do that".

The hardest thing the ego has to deal with is the NOT knowing! I mean, it likes to know everything to justify its existence. So what if another says that this is all my "belief" or "mental construct"...I mean I could also go that way and quote Tathagata Buddha "With our thoughts, we create the world"...and I can see that this is where my misspent youth of watching "Journey To The West" (Monkey Magic) pays off.

It doesn't hurt to totally let yourself go. Yes, it CAN happen when I allow it to...and I should be doing it more often than I do, so that the effort becomes effortless...

Good points, SD.

Thanks...

As to ego, it can and does use every justification under the sun to not disappear - underneath, it fears that, more than anything...oh that's what you said

Thanks again SD for the encouragement

JL

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

Wise lady.

Not knowing is most intimate.


or we resist that which we desire because we want it so much.

Care to elaborate, Shivani Devi?

JL

Sure.

If we got everything we could ever want/desire, what would there be left to want/desire? For those who are immersed in the bliss and silence of the Atman, the question answers itself...for those who are just looking in, it becomes "so, what say I reach that state...would it REALLY be something that would make me happy?...how can sitting in one place, chanting OM and gazing at one's navel make one happy?...it is stupid!...hey I know, what say I tell everybody that I am "already enlightened" and there is no need to do any work/sadhana so I won't have to put myself out from doing my everyday routine...even though I want to feel what the Yogis feel without having to do what the Yogi bears all do...yeah, let's do that".

Or, one could just love God SO much, they don't want to "merge with God" because their bliss is derived through worshiping Him from a distance...and now I have a Bette Midler song stuck in my head..

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

Good points, SD.

Thanks...

As to ego, it can and does use every justification under the sun to not disappear - underneath, it fears that, more than anything...oh that's what you said

Thanks again SD for the encouragement

JL

You are very welcome.

This thread has been a wild ride, has it not?

[django]

Originally Posted by janielee

And yet here on this thread, the purpose of it being to ask these very words, many people came forward to say "Yes it has helped me" (Did you overlook that part?)

Who are you to judge what is right and wrong here, the empire sounds like a matter of jealousy?

Also, Tolle says much more than "in the now"

And judging by your research of him, you took less time to understand his words, than to find fault.

Aren't you a Christian, they seem to have some good things to say about judgement and stones which I respect...it's hard to do though, I know, especially for intellectual types like you and I.

JL

Yeah, I'm not a Christian who tries to emulate Jesus and do as He said, I want my thoughts and actions and any goodness to arise from within, naturally, so I don't embody all the Qualities that Jesus had yet, but hopefully one day my desire to not judge will develop.

For now I will consider the issue, maybe it's time I did follow his words more, and not just wait until it is ripe in me. It's not the way I normally work though.

Originally Posted by django

Yeah, I'm not a Christian who tries to emulate Jesus and do as He said, I want my thoughts and actions and any goodness to arise from within, naturally, so I don't embody all the Qualities that Jesus had yet, but hopefully one day my desire to not judge will develop.

For now I will consider the issue, maybe it's time I did follow his words more, and not just wait until it is ripe in me. It's not the way I normally work though.

I know what you mean, django, I also wanted things to unfurl naturally - never really liked the path of pretence or "trying to be good" and it has held up ok overall. That said, the willingness to "let go" is also pivotal, and looks like, based on my research of Jesus's words in the Christian thread Jesus did teach a way of goodness - I couldn't reach it through being told though, but maybe others can. Surrendering to Jesus, giving Him your life, is a little like relinquishing/surrendering ego with all its opinions, judgements, pettiness and fights....it's a noble thing if done properly.

It's your prerogative, of course, I was ribbing you a little too - your choice.

Namaste,

JL


And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

—Matthew 18:2-4

Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”
—Matthew 16:24-25

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Sure.

If we got everything we could ever want/desire, what would there be left to want/desire? For those who are immersed in the bliss and silence of the Atman, the question answers itself...for those who are just looking in, it becomes "so, what say I reach that state...would it REALLY be something that would make me happy?...how can sitting in one place, chanting OM and gazing at one's navel make one happy?...it is stupid!...hey I know, what say I tell everybody that I am "already enlightened" and there is no need to do any work/sadhana so I won't have to put myself out from doing my everyday routine...even though I want to feel what the Yogis feel without having to do what the Yogi bears all do...yeah, let's do that".

Or, one could just love God SO much, they don't want to "merge with God" because their bliss is derived through worshiping Him from a distance...and now I have a Bette Midler song stuck in my head..

I thought the last door has no desire

Many are lost, either through choice, or through not knowing the possible. Most talk on this forum sounds like people who have hit one ball, and think they are in the Hall of Fame Baseball League - this is not an insult, at all, it just shows how much people limit their own potential.

This is the real limitation I see with someone like Eckhart Tolle (going back to topic )

Telling someone how it can be is not the same as living a reality - and the worst (to borrow django's word or example ) is "understanding" and nodding, but still not living or tasting Truth...and many people are going to like understanding or assume understanding = living.

On your points, perhaps another reason is as you said earlier, not yet being willing to surrender fully...

Food for thought.

JL

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

You are very welcome.

This thread has been a wild ride, has it not?

It's brought us and others together for a yarn, that was fun.

JL

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

I thought the last door has no desire

Many are lost, either through choice, or through not knowing the possible. Most talk on this forum sounds like people who have hit one ball, and think they are in the Hall of Fame Baseball League - this is not an insult, at all, it just shows how much people limit their own potential.

This is the real limitation I see with someone like Eckhart Tolle (going back to topic )

Telling someone how it can be is not the same as living a reality - and the worst (to borrow django's word or example ) is "understanding" and nodding, but still not living or tasting Truth...and many people are going to like understanding or assume understanding = living.

On your points, perhaps another reason is as you said earlier, not yet being willing to surrender fully...

Food for thought.

JL

Yes, it is hard to take that "Leap of Faith" and surrender what is "known" to what is "unknown" (or unknow-able).

Other times, the ego will keep poking its head in to 'second guess' itself every step of the way.

Last night, I was in bed at 11pm trying to get to sleep...and you know the aversion that 'sleep' has to any 'conscious effort' right? It just ain't gonna happen..

So I thought, "I know...let's do some Yoga Nidra (conscious sleep) instead".

I was about half way through Yoga Nidra when a disembodied voice came through..."What say we balance your Chakras, my love?"

So, I was like "Halt! Who goes there?" followed by "so what would this 'Chakra Balancing' entail then?"

The reply was a laugh, followed by "you know who this is...or at least your heart does...I just need to borrow your body for about an hour or so...that's all".

Of course, my reply was "Hey...aren't you just ME? or another aspect of myself?...and in that case, wouldn't I just be balancing my OWN Chakras without whatever it is that you say you are?"

The voice came back and said "Maybe, maybe not...and in any case, what would be so bad about that?"

Well, there's nothing really 'bad' about this...except for the obvious fact that my subconscious mind isn't going to be fooled so easily into believing that "somebody/thing" is healing me when I am just projecting my own consciousness externally first for that to happen.

However, in the attempt to find out, I lowered all my shields and my inhibitions going "my body and mind is all yours...do what you will" and the trance state which followed was totally indescribable and I became fully aware that it was not "me" who was moving my hands in a clockwise direction over my solar plexus to steady the flow of chi...

I was the one just laying there and enjoying it until I fell asleep.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

I thought the last door has no desire

Until they reach that doorstep, gaze through the open door and go "I think I will just sit on the doorstep here and just watch you dance, my Lord".

I will just listen on as the resonance of Your vibration beats in time with my own heart and that of the Cosmic Drum you hold in your left hand.

I will let you burn all my desires away, just as your Third Eye Chakra burns away all the desires of the flesh as does the fire which you hold in your right hand.

I am happy just watching You, my Lord, and bathing in Your most sublime Grace..

So, please don't mind me sitting in your doorstep...I am not blocking the way or the view of others.

Om Namah Shivaya