what would the world be like

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Mind you the Native Americans originally were master horticulturalists...

http://www.ivu.org/history/native_americans.html

No they weren't. My original ancestors were not farmers. That's why first nations people have more health problems than most people and typically can't handle grains or dairy. Agriculture didn't exist before 10,000 years ago and even then it was scarce. Most natives hadn't been eating grains or dairy until white people came. Even then during the fur trade when natives were given guns and not allowed to use their "savage" weapons anymore, natives starved to death instead of eating anything because trading posts ran out of food for the winters and at that point, they'd become more reliant on white man's supplies because many of them refused to use guns. Trading post owners didn't do a thing to call in for more supplies, they just watched the tribes starve to death.
LONG before that they ate wild edibles and collected herbs in whatever climate they lived in. Vegetables even exist in the plains.

You see, evidence of life can go back to about 200,000 years ago but farming didn't really start up until 5,000 - 10,000 years ago anywhere for any people. Fact still remains, it was never the norm for my ancestors, it was given to a few tribes eventually, later on. Most tribes didn't have crops straight into the 1800's. Corn was a big spiritual staple for a few tribes that were able to grow it.
Oh and also society spiked in ancient Egypt times. I have fond memories of this time frame but I can't be sure what exact date it would have been. It wasn't "primitive" like people believe. So they had very sophisticated farming techniques. ET's were there (all kinds of ET races) and there was technology and sorcery. Also a lot of people were more ascended than they are today. After that wars happened, the floating city of atlantis came to save some people from great floods and storms, many civilizations died out and society began declining again. Then it got primitive again.

If you want accurate information about ancient diets, research the paleoithic diet.
Your source is not about ancient times, it directly points out that time frame is when white people were already there, in the 1800's. That's not ancient times! That's practically yesterday lol.

[running]

Yeah I believe farming is a pretty new thing overall. I'm not native american. I think I'm mainly German and I have been sick my whole life from eating grains. Worse my niece has the same problem and is having a more severe problem with it. My sister has great insurance so they got lucky and found a specialized doctor in los Angeles. The human body like hers or mine literally attacks itself when anything gluten comes in. Its classified as an autoimmune disease. Cialic I think its called. My niece is only eight. One strange ailment from it was her eyebrows were literally falling out. Since the doctor has put her on a diet free of all gluten she is night and day better. Since I have gotten away from all the grains and white rice as it seems to do the same thing. I don't even feel like the same person. Its hard to know when your sick. When you have always been sick.lol. Another discovery for me is eating higher quanitys of meat. I have had kidney pains due to my intolerance of gluten. Coming off gluten helped. Upping my meat intake wiped the problem right out. I simply digest protein and fat much better. We all as a species I believe have been hunter and gather society's for a very long time. Way longer than since farming. Some of us never acquired the ability to eat the grains.

Originally Posted by running

The dust bowl was created from agriculture.
Humans are only one of many of the inhabitant to the planet.
Western style of living has created over population.
Saying native people only lived to survive is an opinion.
Starvation is now a problem due to over population.
Living in harmony with the eco system doesn't cause over population. Thus food was available.

Yes, the Dust Bowl in American & Canada was caused in part by agricultural farmers as well as the drought ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl ...

Yes, saying native people lived to survive is a well formed opinion ...
Just like all other people their daily activities were consumed w/preparing for the next harvest, the next winter, the next etc ...
From my observations, it is what most are doing now, however, individual people desire/want/seek a more meaningful-definition/purpose ...
There was no such thing as individual spiritual beliefs hundreds of years ago, you believed as the tribe/pueblo did ...
Today's natives as w/other cultures can continue to practice their cultural - traditional beliefs as well as shed those that are no long applicable to the needs of their people ...
Every year they include their traditional rain dance on feast days, then go turn on their irrigation ...
These are modern times ...

Starvation in the world is due in part to issues w/distribution ...
Theft by pirates/black marketeers is a major problem ...
Including crop failure, government policies, population unbalance, inaccessibility ...
In the US, the major factor is a result of unemployment ...

The US is not re-populating itself, we are almost below 1% ...
By 2030, we will not have enough people to support our economy ...
We will probably do as some countries have - lure immigrants to move here to help - which is not a bad idea since we are a melting pot country ...

The other is we cannot force people to use contraception - some people refuse to use it, some for religious reasons while others do not have access to it ...

Looking back into history is good but we also have to accept the bad ...
I loved growing up in the 60s/70s, but would I want to go back to the racism I experienced - no way!
Nor do I think, natives would want to either ...
I live in the "now" w/fond memories of my own past as well as remembering w/balance my entire journey including the prejudice & sexism I endured ...
Life is good!

Originally Posted by livingkarma

Life is good!

I am so happy for you; however, most people in the world do not share your good fortune. Poverty, misery and starvation abound. All of these problems would have been avoided if we had not become so over-populous.

Also, even the lucky ones like you will not be so happy when over population, pollution and global warming (all the result of modern man) destroy the eco system and kill off many species; most likely including man.

[running]

There's probably no way to stop industrialized progress. But it sure sucks in a lot of ways. Driving around the country I often try to imagine how things looked like before. It has poisoned countless rivers, streams, lakes,and even oceans. If the buffalo were still here. The fences alone would be a major problem. Perhaps they would just knock them all down. Lol.

Every time I come home from being out on the road I get to see how polluted home is. From interstate 15 in the Hesperia area. It looks like there is a huge dark cloud I'm going to be driving into. Its no cloud. Its pure smog! We breath it. All the animals and plants get to breath it up. The greater los Angeles area was a beautiful place at one time. Today it and others are concrete jungles. I accept how things are. But to me looking at things unselfishly I have a hate about it. To me anyone would. There's got to be a better way. I don't know exactly what it is. But its sure not what were doing. To me what's happened due to industrialization is not progress.

[running]

The funny sad thing is its hard to tell just how polluted we are. From a birds eye view its obvious. I think everyone should see at least once what a gigantic cloud of smog we have created. Perhaps peoples view would change. To me modern comforts aren't worth it.

[running]

Originally Posted by livingkarma

Yes, the Dust Bowl in American & Canada was caused in part by agricultural farmers as well as the drought ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl ...

Yes, saying native people lived to survive is a well formed opinion ...
Just like all other people their daily activities were consumed w/preparing for the next harvest, the next winter, the next etc ...
From my observations, it is what most are doing now, however, individual people desire/want/seek a more meaningful-definition/purpose ...
There was no such thing as individual spiritual beliefs hundreds of years ago, you believed as the tribe/pueblo did ...
Today's natives as w/other cultures can continue to practice their cultural - traditional beliefs as well as shed those that are no long applicable to the needs of their people ...
Every year they include their traditional rain dance on feast days, then go turn on their irrigation ...
These are modern times ...

Starvation in the world is due in part to issues w/distribution ...
Theft by pirates/black marketeers is a major problem ...
Including crop failure, government policies, population unbalance, inaccessibility ...
In the US, the major factor is a result of unemployment ...

The US is not re-populating itself, we are almost below 1% ...
By 2030, we will not have enough people to support our economy ...
We will probably do as some countries have - lure immigrants to move here to help - which is not a bad idea since we are a melting pot country ...

The other is we cannot force people to use contraception - some people refuse to use it, some for religious reasons while others do not have access to it ...

Looking back into history is good but we also have to accept the bad ...
I loved growing up in the 60s/70s, but would I want to go back to the racism I experienced - no way!
Nor do I think, natives would want to either ...
I live in the "now" w/fond memories of my own past as well as remembering w/balance my entire journey including the prejudice & sexism I endured ...
Life is good!

Modern day people work far more statistically than indiginious society's do by a wide margin.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Ciqala

No they weren't. My original ancestors were not farmers. That's why first nations people have more health problems than most people and typically can't handle grains or dairy. Agriculture didn't exist before 10,000 years ago and even then it was scarce. Most natives hadn't been eating grains or dairy until white people came. Even then during the fur trade when natives were given guns and not allowed to use their "savage" weapons anymore, natives starved to death instead of eating anything because trading posts ran out of food for the winters and at that point, they'd become more reliant on white man's supplies because many of them refused to use guns. Trading post owners didn't do a thing to call in for more supplies, they just watched the tribes starve to death.
LONG before that they ate wild edibles and collected herbs in whatever climate they lived in. Vegetables even exist in the plains.

You see, evidence of life can go back to about 200,000 years ago but farming didn't really start up until 5,000 - 10,000 years ago anywhere for any people. Fact still remains, it was never the norm for my ancestors, it was given to a few tribes eventually, later on. Most tribes didn't have crops straight into the 1800's. Corn was a big spiritual staple for a few tribes that were able to grow it.
Oh and also society spiked in ancient Egypt times. I have fond memories of this time frame but I can't be sure what exact date it would have been. It wasn't "primitive" like people believe. So they had very sophisticated farming techniques. ET's were there (all kinds of ET races) and there was technology and sorcery. Also a lot of people were more ascended than they are today. After that wars happened, the floating city of atlantis came to save some people from great floods and storms, many civilizations died out and society began declining again. Then it got primitive again.

If you want accurate information about ancient diets, research the paleoithic diet.
Your source is not about ancient times, it directly points out that time frame is when white people were already there, in the 1800's. That's not ancient times! That's practically yesterday lol.

What has dairy got to do with horticulture?
And what? ET???? Atlantis?
Are you reading the same thread as everyone else?

You claim to be a Native American and you've never heard of the Three Sisters?
Native Americans didn't eat grains until the 1800s? It was the Native Americans who gave corn to the world. They were growing it and eating it for hundreds, even thousands of years.
http://www.iroquoismuseum.org/three_sisters.htm

[running]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

What has dairy got to do with horticulture?
And what? ET???? Atlantis?
Are you reading the same thread as everyone else?

You claim to be a Native American and you've never heard of the Three Sisters?
Native Americans didn't eat grains until the 1800s? It was the Native Americans who gave corn to the world. They were growing it and eating it for hundreds, even thousands of years.
http://www.iroquoismuseum.org/three_sisters.htm

I think a lot of people think of corn as a vegetable. I had to look it up. Cornmeal is considered a grain to the us gov. Their website is shut down because of the gov shutdown. But some of the list of grains I could see in the title. Being some native tribes ground it down it would be considered a grain. I guess that's how the terminology goes. Before I would of considered it a vegetable. Learn something every day.

Originally Posted by running

Modern day people work far more statistically than indiginious society's do by a wide margin.

Twice as much due to technology ...
Can't go backwards only forward ...
And try our best to restore/revive the earth ...
Otherwise, it's like crying over spilled milk ...

The majority of us do our share of polluting the environment ...
Those who drive 18 wheelers/vehicles, ride buses, commuter trains as well as consumers of pre-packaged foods, household goods, garden supplies, housing, etc ...
I live near a centrally located Wal-mart to 5 pueblos ...
I can smell/taste the fumes from all the natives coming in daily for supplies including the 18 wheelers that supply the Wal-mart & surrounding stores ...
Pueblos w/out a casino still have no indoor plumbing or electricity ...
We have no burn days, water conservation during certain hours of the day, recycling centers, set days of the year for hunting, etc ...
I'm happy we're working toward a more eco-friendly society ...
I sincerely understand what you're saying at the same time I prefer to accept the now rather than think about how my life could've been had I lived in a different era - like a slave ...