killing wildlife

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Wisa'ka

1) Scalping was practiced long before the white man arrived, but is was the white man who brought about more scalping by imposing scalp bounties on the tribes they played upon each other. And yes there were wars, but not the total wars of conquest practiced in Europe.

2) Some of us are quite proud of our hunter and warrior heritage.

3) "All the great Native American spirit teachers once lived as you live, and even more so in the old days, but they all advocate reverence for all creation and non-killing/vegetarianism"

4) Of course we look at hunting a bit different than the lords and gentry of your land. Those who by land ownership and status are about the only ones allowed to hunt in England, eh ?

A case of not being allowed to hunt,, so turn against it ?

5) Tradition doesn't make it right ? You're saying so doesn't make it wrong.

1) I didn't know that. Presumably that was why the white man labelled 'you' sub-human savages, and had no qualms about slaughtering you, in the same way you have no qualms about killing animals.
Luckily the white man has learnt better since.

2) Pride in history and heritage is one thing, but that still doesn't make it (the warfare, killing, scalping etc.) right.

3) I was referring to the great spirit teachers (i.e. White Eagle, Silver Birch and so forth)

4) Those who were so inclined and had the wealth to do so kept horses and engaged in fox-hunting and stag-hunting. Those who didn't engaged in hare coursing, badger-baiting, **** fighting and the like. Either way they did it for 'sport' and through the cruelty in their hearts.
The majority of people didn't engage in such things, which are all banned now.

5) "Tradition doesn't make it right". Any act of cruelty, violence and brutality is wrong. Always has been wrong and always will be wrong. It is the perception of the perpetrator that changes. We learn, we grow, we evolve spiritually, we view things differently.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Wisa'ka

So it's better to allow a species like our whitetail deer to overpopulate where they have not enough range to graze upon and end up starving therefore coming into gardens and farms where they are killed as pests?

Tell me, Knight, in your land is there any deer and if so, do they have natural predators? If not how are is the deer population kept in check?

Perhaps on the large estates in your land where there is a bit of woods and deer, the gentry have themselves hunts? Or do the deer in your land practice birth control?

Left to her own devices Mother Nature will find her mark - as she has done for the last X million of years.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

Sometimes it means opening or closing off hunting and other times it means trapping and moving animals to areas where they won't be overcrowded. Again if you are interested, there is plenty to learn about conservation and how effective it is where man and animal share the same home. It works and in fact where I live there was almost no deer and no turkeys at one time untill conservationists took control. Within a short period of time the populations flourished.
Even the Native Americans knew this and moved from one area to another often. It is an answer that works well where there are not too many alternatives and the people who do it for a living, IMO, should be highly respected for their efforts and for their concern.

I take your overall point but the original post concerned deer being killed just for eating people's garden flowers! Where human-animal 'conflict' occurs it is usually the result of human encroachment. We need to respect and preserve natural habitats. There IS room for us all, us and the other sentient beings we share the planet with. Though 'we' seem to forget that a lot of the time...

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

I take your overall point but the original post concerned deer being killed just for eating people's garden flowers! Where human-animal 'conflict' occurs it is usually the result of human encroachment. We need to respect and preserve natural habitats. There IS room for us all, us and the other sentient beings we share the planet with. Though 'we' seem to forget that a lot of them...

Yes indeed and there is so much we can do. Personally, I left a large portion of my yard to go natural so as to provide shelter and a home for small animals. I don't use pesticides and I don't plant things for ornamental reasons only. My yard attracts all kinds of creatures and in the winter I feed them because I know that if we didn't transfer nature into lawns as much as humans did, then there would be enough natural winter food for the birds to survive on. Feeding them helps tremendously, I have found.
I could go on but yes the message is that we can do alot and we have caused alot of the problems for no justifiable reason (ie..manicured lawns, ornamental plants)

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

Yes indeed and there is so much we can do. Personally, I left a large portion of my yard to go natural so as to provide shelter and a home for small animals. I don't use pesticides and I don't plant things for ornamental reasons only. My yard attracts all kinds of creatures and in the winter I feed them because I know that if we didn't transfer nature into lawns as much as humans did, then there would be enough natural winter food for the birds to survive on. Feeding them helps tremendously, I have found.
I could go on but yes the message is that we can do alot and we have caused alot of the problems for no justifiable reason (ie..manicured lawns, ornamental plants)

Well said.

Respect to you for that, James.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

5) "Tradition doesn't make it right". Any act of cruelty, violence and brutality is wrong. Always has been wrong and always will be wrong. It is the perception of the perpetrator that changes. We learn, we grow, we evolve spiritually, we view things differently.

Your opinion isn't absolute.. nor is ours.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Left to her own devices Mother Nature will find her mark - as she has done for the last X million of years.

We are part of this world.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

I take your overall point but the original post concerned deer being killed just for eating people's garden flowers! Where human-animal 'conflict' occurs it is usually the result of human encroachment.

It can also be deer encroachment if there is a lack of predators. We can't tell.. OP doesn't deliver.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

We need to respect and preserve natural habitats. There IS room for us all, us and the other sentient beings we share the planet with. Though 'we' seem to forget that a lot of the time...

If nature would be changeless you may be correct.. but it isn't. Climates change, environments change, species with favorable traits survive, others go extinct, etc. With or without humans!

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

1) Your opinion isn't absolute.. 2) We are part of this world. 3) It can also be deer encroachment if there is a lack of predators. We can't tell.. OP doesn't deliver. 4) If nature would be changeless you may be correct.. but it isn't. Climates change, environments change, species with favorable traits survive, others go extinct, etc. With or without humans!

1) No, but spiritual Law is.

2) Indeed, but 'we' are living like feudal barons, not sacred guardians.

3) The core of the thread. However the deer arrived in those gardens eating a few flowers is not a reason or excuse for blasting them to Kingdom come.

4) "There IS room for us all, us and the other sentient beings we share the planet with."

There is room for us all, it is man's violence, destruction and greed, and the bigoted 'Lord and Master' attitude that creates the imbalance and pushes other species to the edge.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

I take your overall point but the original post concerned deer being killed just for eating people's garden flowers! Where human-animal 'conflict' occurs it is usually the result of human encroachment. We need to respect and preserve natural habitats. There IS room for us all, us and the other sentient beings we share the planet with. Though 'we' seem to forget that a lot of the time...

There are natural remedies to a point, for preventing the deer from eating ornamental shrubs. The hunting store and probably other places online sell urine of natural predators that deter the deer. We have a deer problem, I never thought about shooting one, because I don't like the meat and the spray does work. If a hunter, however, during season wanted to rid some of these rodents on giant legs, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

1) No, but spiritual Law is.

Ah you have equated your opinion with law. It doesn't change anything though.

I do not believe in a ''spiritual law'' but playing the game along, there would be no law against killing and violence, because creatures survive and reproduce thanks to violence and killing.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

2) Indeed, but 'we' are living like feudal barons, not sacred guardians.

Feudal barons.. eh. We agree on not being a sacred guardians.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

3) The core of the thread. However the deer arrived in those gardens eating a few flowers is not a reason or excuse for blasting them to Kingdom come.

We can't tell, we need more details.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

4) "There IS room for us all, us and the other sentient beings we share the planet with."

No there is no world in which ''all'' can thrive. You sure you have an interest in animals and nature?

I for one believe in God's laws and human law except where that human law violates God's Law. Our supreme duty is to obey God. Since God tells us to also obey human laws, we should. But, when they come in conflict, we are to "obey God rather than men." -- going cross eyed.