Transubstantiation.

[saurab]

Originally Posted by sky

Is this explainable to a Non-Christian or should it just be accepted through faith as being a Miracle....

The food offering becomes charged with spiritual energy (like Reiki). THat is what happens during transubstantiation.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Maisy

So when Jesus says, eat my body and drink my blood, to me he is clearly talking about a sacrifice with him being what is being sacrificed. In that time, sacrificing animals was a normal common thing. So I think that is the context in which those words were being spoken.

Jesus is often referred to as the sacrificial lamb.

Passover was done away with for those who would become Christians after Jesus was 'sacrificed". He was the perfect lamb and he brought closure to what was and opened the door for what will come be.

[Gem]

In this day and age we know the molecular structure of material, so we shouldn't still be bemused by wine turning into blood etc. People cling to old beliefs regardless of new knowledge, because for some if not most, belief trumps what is true, and people need miracles to fortify irrational beliefs. That's weird because reality is stranger than fiction, but most take it for granted

If we consider church-communion to be a symbolic ritual that reiterates the last supper - great! That's what it is. That can have some powerful psychological affects, which I guess is the point. Religion is fundamentally a repetition of symbol and ritual, after all, with varying degrees of faith, devotion and fervour.

[Redchic12]

SKY. I really like your comments in this section. I find them really interesting yes it’s good for us all to question everything. I guess that’s how we all learn and grow.

GEM. Yes I believe it is symbolic as well and has a different meaning for each person.

SAURAB. My understanding of what you have said is that the priest is charging g the Eucharist with spiritual energy that comes thru him

Well ide like to draw your attention to the fact that there have been many priests who have been convicted of 'some bad things',
a huge amount in this country alone. So it makes me question that they were able to use spiritual energy to do this.

No offence. Just looking at some of the facts that plague this world.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

...Well ide like to draw your attention to the fact that there have been many priests who
have been convicted of 'some bad things', a huge amount in this country alone.
So it makes me question that they were able to use spiritual energy to do this.

Good point to bring up.

If a medium shoplifts...are they no longer a medium?
If a psychic - is an alcoholic are they no longer psychic?
If a Prime Minister is corrupt - is he still the PM able to govern?
John of God has/had a sexual issue and is in jail now ...yet, he was indeed an amazing healer!
Where do these special powers or gifts come from ...the flawed person?
Rhetorical questions.

[Redchic12]

Ah Miss H thank you for your very interesting comments and well worth thinking about.
Here are some of my thoughts about your comments.

Regarding the psychic, the Prime Minister and the Medium I feel it all comes down to the INTENT. Was it it malicious or self serving or a means of survival.

We are told God sees all, God knows all and only God will ultimately judge you on your deeds.

However, I ask do these gifts come from God when some seem to be religious cover for doing evil continuously.

I feel the real gift is FREE WILL. That is the free will that some distort for their own nefarious ends to serve themselves or do we use FREE WILL to serve others in honouring God.

You mention John of God. I’ve found that there was a lot more than just sexual issues if you do your research that is maliciously harming Gods creation is the ultimate evil IMO

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Good point to bring up.

Where do these special powers or gifts come from ...the flawed person?
Rhetorical questions.

In case anyone has missed this, the understanding of being flawed is the dominant lesson of the Bible. Try finding one significant personage of the Bible, with the exception of Jesus, that did not have flaws. It is why salvation comes by grace and not by works. If it was by works what would one conclude ? That all I have to do to be saved is be perfect ? Where is the inspiration in that ? It is the experiences of the flawed that we can identify with.

The most relevant passage in the Bible that addresses this is 2 Corinthians 12:7-10……I give this knowing it unlikely anyone will read it…….😊😊😊

[Miss Hepburn]

Well, my point is still...
You can be bad person, troubled, hurt others due to your psychological dysfunction...
and still be that medium, psychic, PM or healer.

Ha, reminds me, sometimes I did NOT care for the priest doing the Catholic Mass ..
but I knew ..I wasn't there for him.
The character flaws or unpleasant personalities, for ME, don't influence me, say, if I'd like a reading..
I get they're not perfect, are multi-faceted and working on their own Path to Purity...smelling of drugs and alcohol.
The PM is different, lol.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

The most relevant passage in the Bible that addresses this is 2 Corinthians 12:7-10……
I give this knowing it unlikely anyone will read it…….😊😊😊

Why not copy paste 3 sentences of it.

[Guillaume]

I would agree with Redchic, it's all in the intent.
Our life is a co-creation, so people may be bad because of others' wishes, intents or beliefs.
Sometimes we are the main director of our life, sometimes we are actors.
"Don't Take Anything Personally" from the Four Agreements.