People free of suffering

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Like I said I have a friend who is in major pain and suffers everyday. She has been to 100's of doctors and tried 100's of medications had all the tests known. She still suffers severe migraines everyday.

In Buddhism pain and suffering are 'two' seperate things. There's a very good aphorism, not quoted as being from The Buddha but used by some Schools to explain His teachings on 'Dukkah'..

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional....

"Bhikkhus, when the uninstructed worldling is being contacted by a painful feeling, he sorrows, grieves, and laments; he weeps beating his breast and becomes distraught. He feels two feelings a bodily one and a mental one. Suppose they were to strike a man with a dart, and then they would strike him immediately afterwards with a second dart,so that the man would feel a feeling caused by two darts. So too, when the uninstructed worldling is being contacted by a painful feeling ... he feels two feelings—a bodily one and a mental one.
...
Bhikkhus, when the instructed noble disciple is contacted by a painful feeling, he does not sorrow, grieve, or lament; he does not weep beating his breast and become distraught. He feels one feeling a bodily one, not a mental one. Suppose they were to strike a man with a dart, but they would not strike him imme­diately afterwards with a second dart, so that the man would feel a feeling caused by one dart only. So too, when the instructed noble disciple is contacted by a painful feeling ... he feels one feeling—a bodily one, not a mental one."

The two darts..... Sallatha Sutta.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

In Buddhism...
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional....

As one who has experienced severe pain multiple times I would say from my experience the idea above is non-sense to me or only true in "mild" cases. (if that idea is from Buddhism or Buddha or someone associated with the religion who made it up) Not sure what "suffering" is being defined as as well. Obviously Buddha did not speak English and suffering is an English word.

I tend to think Buddha said some great things so hard to imagine he said non-sense but maybe he did I don't know. Well non-sense to me anyway. Maybe some believe we can be in intense pain and not suffer. The definition of suffering is "the state of undergoing pain, distress, or hardship." So the dictionary equates pain and suffering as the same thing. This is the English word suffering.

This idea one can be in intense pain and have no suffering to me is non-sense for sure. I had an episode of intense pain few days ago. It is overwhelming on so many levels to me. Of course we can be knocked out by doctors and not feel the pain. That's why we get put to sleep when we get surgery. Or we can take pain meds or get shots so we don't feel anything as dentists do. In all of these methods we stop feeling the pain that's why we don't suffer. This idea, from Buddhism I assume? that we can have pain and not suffer makes no sense. Pain is suffering.

This idea we can magically separate out the mental makes sense on some mentally caused pain. Physical pain? Maybe if it is minor or not intense. The pain I felt two days ago.... no way. I had meds luckily or I would have had to go to the emergency room like I have done many times to be knocked out.

My guess is whatever Buddha said if he said it was not suffering is optional. In fact, what's that other saying, "life is suffering." Is that from Buddha? I have a lot of times I am not suffering. So that's non-sense to me as well. Most people suffer rarely so how can "life be suffering?" Sometimes we suffer sometimes we don't. But my guess is a lot of stuff Buddha said and meant got mistranslated over the centuries and especially when converted to English.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

As one who has experienced severe pain multiple times I would say from my experience the idea above is non-sense to me or only true in "mild" cases. Most people suffer rarely so how can "life be suffering?" Sometimes we suffer sometimes we don't

Dukkha is a Teaching that some find hard to understand and unless you've experienced what He means it's even harder.
He obviously didn't mean ' Life is suffering ' but ' In life there IS suffering. Dukkha has various meaning which can be found by reading His Teachings, which when put into practise or even better realised by yourself are not 'non-sense'... but extremely useful. A simple way to grasp the snake by the right end is to see 'Pain' as being physical and 'Suffering' as being mental....

"So too, when the instructed noble disciple is contacted by a painful feeling ... he feels one feeling—a bodily one, not a mental one."

The two darts..... Sallatha Sutta.

What I find amazing is that The Buddha recognised so long ago what Pain Management Consultants are now using to help those in severe pain....

[Redchic12]

Sky. I so agree with that “little story”. Love it.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Sky. I so agree with that “little story”. Love it.

You know because you've experienced benefit from the Teaching. Hospitals are now using His insights to help their Patients,
I remember many moons ago hearing someone say 'Suffering' is all in the mind and thinking what a load of nonsense until I matured and then realised through experience the truth in what they said....
We live and learn...

[Native spirit]

I agree with Sky


Namaste

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

"So too, when the instructed noble disciple is contacted by a painful feeling ... he feels one feeling—a bodily one, not a mental one."

The two darts..... Sallatha Sutta.

The bodily one can be pretty bad!

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

The bodily one can be pretty bad!

And can be pretty good.....

[Redchic12]

Mind you I gotta say that when you’ve been in labour for 20 hours giving birth, if someone told me “it’s all in the mind” I probably would have kicked them lol.

[Maisy]

All religions offer some rewards for following them. In Buddhism's case one is to be free of suffering. I wonder if Buddha was going to have open heart surgery if he would opt for no anesthesia (not to be put to sleep) and no pain meds since he was free of all suffering.