Spirituality and Mental Health

The thing about MH conditions (in adulthood) is that they only become significant when the person feels that they can no longer cope with the way that their mind is...or when the person is no longer able to recognise the need for behaviour modification.

People can be different to the extent that if they went to a doctor, they would be diagnosed with something. But they can also be different and not need the imput of doctors. The need for a MH diagnosis is either a personal choice, or because a person has lost sight of the ability to respond and function in this society.

I have PTSD (depression/anxiety and dissociation to a lesser extent imo.). I accept that my life and my mind is different to other peoples. But i am only ill when I'm not coping - and part of my spiritual development has been accepting that I am individual, and working out how to interact and manage in this society...and make the most of that individuality and being what I am in a very positive sense.

Originally Posted by Raven Poet

@ Greenslade


Greenslade, I must admit I was kind of hoping to hear someone talk about how some of the spiritually ascended of the past might be considered "insane" in reference to their mediumistic abilities. It was another connection between mental state and spirituality that I suspected. I've had others tell me that when they disclosed they heard voices, they were labelled insane, or they did not disclose this in fears of being labelled that way.

Thank you for sharing this.

You're welcome, Raven. I used to work in mental health and I often wondered if there was more of a link between mental health and Spirituality than there's been given credit for. Hearing voices is more common than people would like to admit to because of the stigma, if more people were accepting of it would we have a few more mediums or Spiritual people? I was also told that Mental health is what the shrink says it is, with one shrink you're fine, if they've had a bad day then you're locked up. Flower Power hippies were labelled as whack-jobs because they turned on, tuned in and dropped out, but often looking at society I wonder who the whack-jobs are sometimes :-) Normal is what society says it is.

I once had a woman 'freak out' on me. Usually she was fine but this particular day there had been a problem with her medication, the 'professional' looking after her had forgotten that it was time for her meds and had gone off to another client. As the meds wore off she began to see me as the devil, she was screaming at me to go away and getting herself into a very distressed state. There was nothing I could do, every time I went anywhere near her she screamed and ran, but I couldn't risk her doing something silly. Eventually another woman appeared and managed to calm her down, and I phoned her carer who came and took her away. A few weeks later she came back with her carer and she remembered the incident, she was a lot more 'rational' this day and we had a talk about it. From what I can make out she had seen my aura and thought I was the devil, when she was first diagnosed she had looked to religion.

I personally think that there's more of a link between Spirituality and mental health than is accepted and I suspect quite a few people in here would be seen as 'weird' by 'normal' people. How many people in here have what would be considered as a mental health issue?

In my personal and professional opinion I have noticed that people seem to be more open to spirituality and understanding themselves as a result of reaching a "low point". The materialistic and social way doesn't seem to fit how they feel anymore. It is just my opinion though...

Originally Posted by Raven Poet

So I'd thought I'd post a question here: how does spirituality and mental health conditions intertwine in your outlook?

Interesting question. I've always been interested in the human psyche, since I first had a desire to understand myself and others and why we do those crazy things we do! This interest has taken various forms over the years - the human psyche is everywhere you look - but eventually led me back to school - as a psychology student. I'm very glad it took me so long to go back, because psychology as a field has become very uncertain of itself as neuroscience gives us a new look in to the mind that we did not have before.

What I've learned is that the term "mental health condition" and "diagnosis" is misleading in that it implies a firm understanding of the mind that is being "diagnosed" with a "MHC". The DSM-IV (V is being readied for publication as I type), which is used for most professional diagnoses in the US, is a list of conditions with various symptoms that must be experienced by the client in order to have the condition - while it is the best we have at the moment it is being revised as new information is acquired.

My point is, before I went back to school, even with having much experience with mental illness - I have been diagnosed as having bi-polar disorder type II, my ex-husband was diagnosed schizophrenic, my mother very likely also was BPD but never sought treatment as was her mother before her - I had a unconscious belief that "they" - they being scientists and psychologists - knew what was happening inside of my head better than I did. I thought there were standards, clear lines to define what mental illness was - something in my brain that they could point at and say, there, there is the culprit! And that that was what medication was designed to address.

What I've learned is that psychology is fumbling its way along - many research psychology students envy physics students in that when creating an experimental design there are clearly defined variables (which is very important in experimental research design) - in psychology, not so much.

At this point in time, the better psychologists and psychiatrists are erring on the side of "do no harm" and if the client is distressed do what you are able to treat the symptoms that are distressing. Medications that treat the symptoms are dispensed although often we have no idea why they work, just theories. The brain is such a complex structure its difficult to know what exactly a medication is acting on and how that action relieves symptoms. The general consensus is we need more research, research, research. (When I first went back to school I thought I might want to work in experimental research and prove the existence of the energetic body.. *chuckles*.)

I was lucky that the first time I sought treatment - during a very low time -the psychiatrist told me straight out that she did not know why the medication worked and that I was basically a guinea pig because the medication in question (Prozac for depression) was relatively new (this was 2000 and I think it became widely used in the 80s) and she could not tell me what the long-term effects would be. I chose to ditch the meds - bought kava-kava, St. John's Wort and went through several dark months but I made my way through. With the help of my personal philosophy - my spirituality - I made it through and learned much about the darker aspects of my emotions. I'm still learning.

I think spirituality is intertwined with mental health as it is connected to everything else. In my own life it helps me to view MHC's as being a construction of society - by that I mean in the past in different cultures people who had "hallucinations" were sometimes considered divinely inspired (the Old Testament is full of them and the New as someone else mentioned) - now we live in a different time and they are diagnosed and medicated. My personal experience of "BPD II" is that I am prone to high-highs and low-lows - I have times where I can act in very compulsive and self-destructive ways - and with that knowledge I realize that practicing regular meditation, focusing on a healthy diet, regular exercise, and connecting with nature (all "spiritual" practices) help to keep me balanced and aware of my inner fluctuations. In a way I guess it makes my spiritual practices more practical as they serve the function of keeping me grounded and able to interact in the world consistently - which is a requirement it seems. Also, I do not take medication and this requires that I strive to be aware and objective when viewing myself - another part of my practices.

Just a note, although I do not take medication I very much understand that medication is needed for those experiencing distress from their symptoms and would never assume to know what is right for anyone else.

I think of my diagnosis not as an MHC but just as another part of myself that regular society really only knows a little about - so I take everything with a grain of salt, especially after going back to school and realizing how very, very little the "experts" know. I have feelings, at times they are extreme, and I have learned not to act on everything I feel and to give myself time to feel those feelings. As I told a doctor once - there isn't anything wrong with me, its the society I live in that expects me to conform to their schedule, I'm fine - I just need some time every now and then.

I will say, that my philosophy (spirituality) has sustained me in moments that I felt very dark because it reminds me to accept myself as I am - my dark and my light - and to be grateful for the chance to experience such a wide range of emotional experience. Also, I recently (last year) realized that due to my emotional flux that I would need to let go of the goal of becoming a full-time counselor - I can not guarantee my consistency in balancing my own experience while assisting others. This could have been devastating since I had thought that was my calling since my late teens and I am now 36. But, my philosophy helped there as well as it requires I be open to experience and to remember I do not always know what my plan for myself is consciously (I will always be blind to something)- sometimes I have to take my cue from signs in my external world. Additionally, I found that "spiritually" speaking I am much more comfortable with volunteering as an advocacy counselor than in being paid for my services - I am still following my "spiritual calling" to assist in others growth and healing process but in a way that I can sustain and without money muddling up the interaction.

So, for me, the two have intertwined in a very beneficial way...

Interesting thread... thanks!

Originally Posted by SpiritSeeker

I do not believe in the field of psychology and psychiatry. I feel like these particular fields of sciences are indeed very cruel especially if the practicing psychologist or psychiatrist tells you that this is your fate and you have no control over it. All the bulls*it (sorry for the foul language) they say such as that you can reduce the intensity of your illness but you can never fully become curable, makes a person numb and surrender to this horrible false identification.

I was diagnosed with schizophrenia and it led me to believe that that was my reality. For years I lived by being a slave to my paranoid thoughts and negative accusations towards others. I became really depressed and my thoughts often got out of balance, seriously felt like I was insane. I over analyzed things because I guess that's my very nature, it used to be a gift because I used to be smart and had really great critical thinking but ever since I got into that deep black hole, my analyzations turned into delusions. For years I could not escape. I was living in hell and I was forced to take medication that was prescribed by a psychiatrist who didn't even diagnose me properly. For the first time I went to see a psychiatrist, I told him what I experience, he cut in the middle of my complaints and asked me whether or not there is someone in my family who suffers from mental illness. I replied, yes, my grandmother is schizophrenic, and all of a sudden, the therapy that was supposed to last at least an hour, ended with a simple yet unjustified diagnosis that determined the condition of my mental health for years. I believed I was mentally ill. I believed I was schizophrenic, and worst of all, I started doing research about this illness and all I can conclude is that this is incurable. I became hopeless, the thing that killed me was that I became a person I didn't know, a person that is the exact opposite of who I used to be. My thoughts revolved around how to get better, how to become the person I used to be and I also thought negatively towards other people. I had bizzare delusions because I read too much conspiracy theories, which were fun at first, but after some time it got into me and it actually twisted my whole life around. I almost got out of touch of reality, well at times I really did feel like I was not living in this world. The idea of becoming normal seemed totally impossible. I was prescribed with very expensive medication for two years which did nothing except to leave me with all the horrible side effects.

I stopped the meds. I didn't care. I thought to myself, "I'd rather become insane now rather than having to take meds that will sooner or later ruin me even worse". I still suffered and I had nowhere to run. An idea popped up, "what about if I try spirituality?". Started doing meditation and all, didn't really help.

Long story short, I was told by a friend that an "ascencion" is going to happen in the late 2012 and she said that it would change humanity. I don't know if this subject of ascencion has interested me too much to the point that I started to feel some changes, I learned new lessons from different perspectives. I think this major change (or people may say that this is an "awakening"), happened in August 2012. During this major change, it was as if I were on tripping on a psychedelic drug because of the extremely strong mood swings and dis-arrangement of thoughts. I felt like I was in a state of "limbo" and I was so full of confusion. It was the weirdest moments in my life but then things started to become better and better. I acquired new abilities, learned one of the most valuable lessons of all, which is: YOU ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS. This was a really strong realization and each day I have this strong intention to dis identify from my thoughts. I started to appreciate the Here and the Now, eventually gained a lot of abilities that I never imagined I would ever have, I became more and more at peace, living consciously and felt like I became a "wiser" person but thankfully, I could still become myself and not take spirituality and philosophy too seriously when I'm around friends. Now, I am being the best version of myself.

The idea of mental illness is absurd, it is even more absurd if they say that you are stuck with your miserable condition forever. To those of you who associate yourselves with some sort of "mental illness", please have faith, YOU CAN RECOVER. And best of all, you can even become a better person than you've ever imagined. Spirituality is the way. Stop the meds. Don't believe in what they say. You are perfection. Nuff said.

Cheers! :)

Wow, I can totally relate to this and your views are pretty much identical to mine. I came off my meds a few months ago and it was the best thing I ever did. I had been taking them for roughly 10 years with the last 5 years managing to stay out of hospital and semi-functional. But right towards the end the symptoms got worse and I was convinced I was being posioned by the very thing 'curing' me.

So right I was, because shortly after stopping the symptoms dissipated and my overall well-being increased. IMO, these drugs should only be taken short-term to get over the initial hump but not long-term (that's if these drugs are even the right answer). Like you said, these drugs ruin your quality of life and decrease your life-span so it's in your best interests to get off them as soon as you can.

When you look at the side effects of anti-depressants one of them is depression, the same for anti-anxiety (causes anxiety) and dare I say for anti-psychotics (causes psychosis). In fact, it's proven that if you over-dose on anti-psychotic medication it has the reverse effect and makes you psychotic. My point is it contains something which can exacerbate the psychotic symptoms.

These 'doctors' don't give you options when you become psychotic, there are no alternatives provided other than a pill shoved down your throat. Then when you get out of hospital you are coerced and persuaded to keep taking them. They say if you come off them you will relapse, but there is evidence to suggest the likelihood of relapsing is just the same with or without medication. You have to remember that these doctors are kept in business by their patients and big pharma keeping people sick. Always treat the disease, never cure it seems to be their logic. In fact, I don't know of any disease which is curable in today's society.. once treated it may go away but can still come back.

I thank you for your honest post SpiritSeeker. It reconfirms my thoughts and puts things into perspective. I also learnt something extremely important from it that I hadn't fully realised until now which I have been struggling with for some time... YOU ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS!

[Seawolf]

I don't know about mental conditions but people seem to use spirituality to circumvent dealing with emotional issues. You can use just about anything to hide from facing yourself, I know, I've done it. It's not surprising considering it's one of the hardest things to do.

Much of society is distrustful of psychology, but spiritual groups are even more so. You would think people that are working on themselves wouldn't be, but I don't think spirituality is always used to work on yourself. It's often a way out of dealing with the real issues, while letting you tell yourself you're not.

Err... Eonnn, I think if you continued to read through the thread, you will find that Spirit Seeker further clarified and made changes to his original statement. lol.

I totally understand that people have had bad, and even horrific, experiences with the mental health field... it is a relatively very new science and people have abused it. I worked in it once, and found my job experience to be deplorable. The patients were not being treated in a fair and reasonable manner. I had to quit... it sickened me.

But at the same time, the field has a lot to offer in terms of help for those who are struggling. There are beneficial services that exist among the bad ones.

I went for years and years and .... way too long with out the help of antidepressants... I eventually had a total breakdown, which was set in motion by the flu and my strange sensitivities to certain substances. I couldn't function. I finally gave in to seeking medical help. I didn't go to therapy, as I've spent practically my entire life 'self therapizing', lol. But I needed the help of medication. I wasn't sure if it would help, but my body was in a complete melt down. I feel like I am now more 'normal' and can function well with the help of meds. For me, going without them would be akin to suicide.

That said... the same treatments will not work for everyone. The way that a drug affects you has a lot to do with your personal chemistry. People often find that one drug will not work or exasperate their suffering, while another drug can work quite nicely. This happened to me.... omg, it was awful. But I found something that worked. At first I did not see the effects and was laden with unpleasant side effects, but after time passed, most the side effects disappeared and I could function again.

That was just my experience. Some people don't find meds that work, and others can find great benefits with alternative treatments as well. Its a very individual process, which often isn't treated in an individual manner.

And then there is the complication that not all depression is a mental illness. Depression is a normal part of life and should not be stigmatized as a 'bad' thing. But there is a difference between 'those parts of life' and the debilitating and pervasive experience of clinical mental illness. I feel it is soo soo soo important for people to educate themselves and not to rely only on doctors, because generally, you know better than anyone else what you issues are and you can discover your best treatments.

I went to school for psychology and found that there is way more we don't know about mental illness than we do know. We are just beginning to discover the physiological effects that accompany such issues. We've got a long, long way to go. But we are making progress.


Umm... I guess I missed the part about spirituality, but yes, I have often had spiritual experiences during my greatest suffering... I believe is was meant to sustain me... but I don't recommend living with a debilitating diseases to find spirit, lol. You can do it without the disease.

Originally Posted by missrachel300

Err... Eonnn, I think if you continued to read through the thread, you will find that Spirit Seeker further clarified and made changes to his original statement. lol.

Sorry, I do apologise it was very late last night and I didn't have time. I also wanted to reply whilst my thoughts were still fresh after reading that particular post because it is almost identical to what I experienced.

I wasn't agreeing with psychology and psychiatry being unscientific or impractical but rather the rest of the post about SpiritSeeker's experience with psychosis. After reading the other pages I can see others who share many similarities. My frustration is not with the psychologists and psychiatrists, but with the bad methodology and practices being used.

In respect to spirituality, the majority of my experiences whilst psychotic were of a spiritual or supernatural nature or focus. Fighting off demons, aliens and other unknown or invisible beings, speaking with god and jesus, manifesting events in real time using thoughts and synchronicity, controlling the weather, understanding the nature of reality, moments of telepathy, and so on... just to name a few. Was anything I experienced real? and what is real? and how do you define real? what if just one of these things were real? or say 10%?

I wish you well on your journey to health and understanding, Enonnn.

Sometimes the lines between 'insanity' and 'spirituality' are very blurred indeed.