Gautama Siddhartha

[sentient]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

Yes.............. Also everyone's problems and talents are different

Heh. More classifications ….

I read somewhere in the Buddhist books, that students fall into 3 categories …
- The instant types
- The gradual types
- The skipping the grades types.

*

More classifications of Buddhist students:

- the types who judge where themselves and others are
- the types who care where they and others are
- the types that don't judge others and don't care where anybody is

if you are happy and love everyone and everything,
leave the school, there is nothing more to learn!

“Whatever is disagreeable to yourself, do not do unto others” The Buddha, Udana-Varga 5.18

“I discovered that it is necessary, absolutely necessary, to believe in nothing. No matter what god or doctrine you believe in, if you become attached to it, your belief will be based more or less on a self-centered idea.”
― Shunryu Suzuki

Shunryu Suzuki, a Sōtō Zen monk and teacher who helped popularize Zen Buddhism in the United States, and is renowned for founding the first Zen Buddhist monastery outside Asia.

Belief is unnecessary really. I agree with Master Suzuki. This now moment, and our perfect perception of it as it is, what more is needed? What else is missing? What does a belief add? It is perfect as it is.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Pantanjali says virtually the same thing ... that Asmita (little I-am-ness) and Avidya (ignorance) arise simultaneously. That ignorance leads to attractions and repulsions resulting in clinging to the illusionary separatist life.

without ignorance it's only rising so far! pops like a soap bubble upon
hitting conscious awareness.

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by sentient

Heh. More classifications ….

I read somewhere in the Buddhist books, that students fall into 3 categories …

Yes but it's not anything smart. It's simple precision and realistically knowing the method.

Those three categories seem rather odd, which book did you find it in?

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by sentient

¿Qué?
*

The Buddha's explanation explains the process of how the world comes about, and then how attachment, craving and the whole dependent origination thingy sustains reality. Without penetrating dependent origination (as in seeing it, realizing it) it's still a 'here's more' from the Buddha.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

Yes but it's not anything smart. It's simple precision and realistically knowing the method.

Those three categories seem rather odd, which book did you find it in?

I really cannot remember which book it was and by whom, but the instantaneous type, as I remember it was explained to be a person, who from past lives had already had some realizations.
To those, the teacher only needs to give a few pointers and they ‘get it’, the realization dawns – the jigsaw puzzle comes together & their “assemblage-point-of-awareness” *shifts* to a new level of expanded reality orientation and off they go.

The gradual type is your average Joe Blow who needs to start from the beginning and go through the steps of the path methodologically.

From memory, the skipping the grades types are those whose “assemblage-point-of-awareness” (my borrowed Castaneda term) can *shift* easily & maybe too easily, which do not make the newly dawned realizations/orientations stable, so ups and downs are to be expected.

Skipping the grades reality shifts are a bit like Buster Keaton comedy/tragedy esp. from 3:42 to 4:38:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frYIj2FGmMA

*

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky



[B

“[color="Red"][b] I discovered that it is necessary, absolutely necessary, to believe in nothing.

Which is a belief

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

For your information, it is my understanding now that the "sudden enlightenment" school alone survived the debates on that subject.

Originally Posted by pixiedust

Not sure that's true, SW (agree with everything else!)

That's a tricky discussion point. I agree. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about "gradual" versus "sudden" enlightenment. This made sense to me but I am open to alternate views.

Enlightenment seems to come with an "AHA moment" --- suddenly --- on the specific issues under consideration.

The Hangzhou Buddhist analogy that I presented seems appropriate regarding "gradual" versus "sudden" enlightenment.

As I noted in my previous post, ......

Having said that, groundwork and effort is needed as the metaphorical chicken keeps pecking away at the shell until there is a weak point and the mother chicken pecks at the point from the other side ... and, suddenly, there is a breakthrough.

[sky]

Surely there's no set predictable pattern, I think it would depend on the individual...
It doesn't matter anyway, when the time is right it will happen .

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

EXCERT:

The Buddha's explanation explains the process of how the world comes about, and then how attachment, craving and the whole dependent origination thingy sustains reality.

Can you provide the Sutta where Buddha "explains the process of how the world comes about"?