Does atheism discourage values?

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

How will you know? Maybe there are daemons waiting for you when you go? Or maybe there is nothing at all.

By the way, I checked your profile and noticed that you believe in a lot of the same things I do. Yes, I know, you don't like my attitude towards atheists. What can I tell you? It is what it is.

Originally Posted by Mazulu

By the way, I checked your profile and noticed that you believe in a lot of the same things I do.

Yes, I am not an atheist. I also believe in NDEs and am really curious about paranormal phenomena and would love to know what causes them.

Originally Posted by Mazulu

Yes, I know, you don't like my attitude towards atheists. What can I tell you? It is what it is.

But why do you dislike them so much? I know atheists and they cause no harm to anyone - they just don't believe in God.

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

But why do you dislike them so much? I know atheists and they cause no harm to anyone - they just don't believe in God.

How would you know they don't cause harm? In a world that is filled with cynicism and fear, they write books like The God Delusion and God is not Great. There are atheists that perpetuate hopelessness and fear so that they can attain fame and fortune at the expense of others.

Originally Posted by Mazulu

How would you know they don't cause harm? In a world that is filled with cynicism and fear, they write books like The God Delusion and God is not Great. There are atheists that perpetuate hopelessness and fear so that they can attain fame and fortune at the expense of others.

One or two of them might, but the countless millions of others just mind their own business and harm no one.

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

One or two of them might, but the countless millions of others just mind their own business and harm no one.

I'm not complaining about the countless millions of atheists who harm no one. I am complaining about the one or two who write books, make podcasts and in general decry to the world that there is no soul when the evidence for life after death is significant and growing.

Originally Posted by Mazulu

I'm not complaining about the countless millions of atheists who harm no one.

Then in that case you will admit that atheism does not discourage values.

[Belle]

What has writing books / podcasts got to do with values?

The atheism described in those books promotes a doctrine that the universe is meaningless, there is no afterlife and there is no God. There are those whose lives are a constant struggle against adversity who rely upon the existence of those things. That brand of atheism attempts to cut the lifeline to hope for a signfiicant number of people. Anything that destroys hope for so many is a form of evil. I really don't give a darn that a bunch of atheists want to claim to promote values when they jump up and down with joy at the site of so many people being separated from a source of hope.

Furthermore, I've already given evidence that there really is an afterlife, there really are angels as well as demons. God is unlimited and therefore cannot be proven to exist under the microscope.

Go on and be atheists if you wish. It's your life and your responsibility. I have no idea what happens to atheists other than the NDE data. But I am not going to support your belief that values that tell you to lie to people by proclaiming that there is no God and no afterlife. I don't know what happens to people who promote that sort of negativity.

[Belle]

Values is a very subjective word. And I think that poses an interesting problem as things that I consider important values are not key for you mazulu and vice versa. At least that's how I'm reading it. It doesn't make one of us better than the other in what we consider important.

Not all atheists care about preaching against the afterlife. Some do and some don't. The ones I've known are accepting of my position.

[Squatchit]

Originally Posted by Mazulu

I'm not complaining about the countless millions of atheists who harm no one. I am complaining about the one or two who write books, make podcasts and in general decry to the world that there is no soul when the evidence for life after death is significant and growing.

So that's Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens then? Christopher died some years, so he'll already know one way or another about an afterlife. So that leaves us with Richard. Wouldn't you be better off complaining about him on an atheist forum? Why here?

It seems to me you have a problem with what I'd term fundamentalist atheists, of which there are only a handful compared to the billions who go about their lives quietly, without making a song & dance about anything.

If so, we agree on something. I have a problem with fundamental religious people who spout that others are going to hell if they don't believe the same things they do (at best) and kill (at worst). All in the name of their belief.

If you have evidence (as you state), why are you banging on about it here? Go and do something about it, inform the "atheist community" (is there such a thing?), write to Richard Dawkins, carry out experiments that will intrigue scientists to carry out their own similar experiments so it can be verified...then the atheists will sit up and take notice. At the very least, write to Richard and ask him to look at your evidence. He's the one atheist who might actually be bothered/interested enough to take notice. The rest of us don't need to believe. This is what I figure you don't really understand. We (meaning the majority of atheists) have no desire to believe in the supernatural. Life is absolutely amazing as it is. You know? If there is something after death, then I'll cross that bridge as and when. But my logical brain won't let me believe in something that is so irrational and unlikely.

Honestly, as an atheist, I have no interest in watching hundreds of Youtube videos with dodgy 'evidence' of ghosts. There is a clue in the term NDE - look at the letter N - it means Near. Yes, there are thousands of accounts of bright lights and heavenly bodies (all the different ones, lol), but that doesn't mean there's an afterlife. These people didn't die. Have you considered that the brain might release a shedload (and I'm talking a large shed here) of endorphins upon realising one is dying? Like a huge dump of LSD injected into the brain for one last massive trip?

And you expect me to believe a television programme about ghosts as proof? Do you really think a programme about ghosts - where no ghosts show up - to ever get aired on TV? I mean really - think about it.

It really is an interesting thread, but I do think I'm (and others) are getting absolutely nowhere explaining our viewpoints and positions.