Integration of meditation or meditation to reach a goal?

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Ivy

To add.. having never meditated for a goal, I may be misunderstanding, but it seems kind of ego based to meditate in order to get something or somewhere.

To me, meditating for a goal has to do with personal development. It has to do with the solistic side of me.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Gem

I employ it in routine as a daily appointment with myself.

I do like spending quality time alone too.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Serrao

I do like spending quality time alone too.

For me, routine is what makes me settled... if it's time for this thing then it's time for that, it saves me the effort of wondering what to do and saves me from forgetting to do things... starts with 'bedtime'. If I don't get that one in place, the rest is out the window.

Obligations help too. If my boss is expecting me at 8 tomorrow, I will get to bed around 'bedtime'...

it all works together and one aspect compliments another. The worst thing I do is get into a state of SF procrastination and that's when 'bedtime' is lost and the rest of it comes unstuck.

Originally Posted by Serrao

To me, meditating for a goal has to do with personal development. It has to do with the solistic side of me.

What is solistic? (holistic?).

What is your goal then? I would say that personal development happens through living life, meditating and experiencing different experiences quite naturally, without having a goal to attain. But for others, I realise that having a more specific aim or goal helps them.

[VinceField]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't know.

So, basically you're saying you don't know what you're talking about. I certainly couldn't figure out what you were saying, but I thought that at least you knew. Seems odd after making such a definitive statement about "truth." All the same, no worries.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by VinceField

So, basically you're saying you don't know what you're talking about. I certainly couldn't figure out what you were saying, but I thought that at least you knew. Seems odd after making such a definitive statement about "truth." All the same, no worries.

I said that 'this is here just as it is' and 'I don't know what is'. Simple az, bro.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Ivy

What is solistic? (holistic?).

I thought "solistic" was an english word too (english is not my native language). I meant by "solistic" that part of (my) life which is lived solely and alone, without influence from and influencing others.

Originally Posted by Ivy

What is your goal then?

I believe the inner world of every being has infinite possibilities of development. I'd say: just busy with developing my inner too, with the aid of meditation.

Originally Posted by Ivy

I would say that personal development happens through living life, meditating and experiencing different experiences quite naturally, without having a goal to attain. But for others, I realise that having a more specific aim or goal helps them.

The diversity in choosing how one wants to live their life is infinite, I guess. This has to do with free will and free choice.

It is a beautiful word that I might adopt anyway, but it isn't an English word unless it has made it into the dictionary recently.

The way you describe your meditative experiences, it sounds like it is simply integrated into the whole, as opposed to having a specific goal as some people do.

[VinceField]

Originally Posted by Gem

I said that 'this is here just as it is' and 'I don't know what is'. Simple az, bro.

I asked what "this" is, or in other words, what is "here just as it is?" You said you didn't know.

I'll answer the question for you for the sake of moving things along and assume by "this" you mean whatever mind or body state is currently being experienced.

It doesn't sound like a very profound truth, or one that many people wouldn't understand. Of course, the pain, or the sadness, or the worry, or the intrusive thoughts, etc, are here just as they are, if they are present. Just about everyone will agree to this, no meditation practice or deep insight needed; it's basic experience. The question is, what do we do with the mind and body that is suffering? Do we continue suffering and just accept it "as it is?" Or do we cultivate wholesome mind states and eliminate the harmful ones, like meditation is aimed at?

Rhetorical question, of course.

once one ceases trying to get to the future, they can look at this.

The reason one looks to the future is because they already know the "truth" about what is present in their experience, and they recognize that they don't like it and don't want it, and so they work to try to change it. Change is a fundamental aspect of the nature of our "self" and reality. There is no reason to try to stop it or avoid it. Rather, we must harness it and use it to our advantage, in the most skillful ways possible. That is the aim of Buddhist meditation practices, and the Buddhist path as a whole, as well as most other spiritual paths and practices that I am aware of.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by VinceField

I asked what "this" is, or in other words, what is "here just as it is?" You said you didn't know.

Exactly.

I'll answer the question for you for the sake of moving things along and assume by "this" you mean whatever mind or body state is currently being experienced.

Not exactly

It doesn't sound like a very profound truth, or one that many people wouldn't understand.

Do you have any doubt that this is here just as it is? No one understands it.

Of course, the pain, or the sadness, or the worry, or the intrusive thoughts, etc, are here just as they are, if they are present. Just about everyone will agree to this, no meditation practice or deep insight needed; it's basic experience.

Yes. It's most basic. No practice needed, and it's the deepest and most immediate of experiences.

The question is, what do we do with the mind and body that is suffering? Do we continue suffering and just accept it "as it is?" Or do we cultivate wholesome mind states and eliminate the harmful ones, like meditation is aimed at?

We just see it as it is because it is here just as it is, it's basic experience, no practice of insight needed. No accepting it or rejecting it allowing it or resisting it.

Rhetorical question, of course.

You're much more sure of things than I am.

The reason one looks to the future is because they already know the "truth" about what is present in their experience.

On can't observe the future. Only the present.

and they recognize that they don't like it and don't want it.

Alas this is true but only contained in the thoughts about it.

and so they work to try to change it.

True, so they do.

Change is a fundamental aspect of the nature of our "self" and reality. There is no reason to try to stop it or avoid it.

Tru Dat!

Rather, we must harness it and use it to our advantage, in the most skillful ways possible. That is the aim of Buddhist meditation practices, and the Buddhist path as a whole, as well as most other spiritual paths and practices that I am aware of.

Of course a practice method must have a goal, which is 'the goal', and Buddhism is really most wonderful despite it being a religion, but please consider seriously, are you in the past somewhere, or do you exist at some future place, or is the you of the past a memory and the you of the future imagined? At what point do you actually exist?