Without God, Evil does not exists

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Ha!

''...but even that is not what IS."



Perfect!

Right on girl, right on.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

deleted, stinking touch pad.

Love the touch pad, honey...love the touch pad.

[Amilius777]

I have no idea where this idea that Christianity created of a universal struggle between two absolutes- good and evil. If Christianity believes that God and Satan are fighting everyday then there are Two Gods. Not one. And if they believe Satan is be a fallen angel then that means an angel or a man or anybody can be the enemy of God which means God is a person with characteristics and not a Spirit like Jesus taught. "God is a Spirit and you should worship him in spirit and truth".

Obviously there is no personality to evil. That is just absurd. Just like the previous posters, evil is part of the One. Evil or what you call The Devil is part of God whether you like it or not.

I was watching Paranormal State the other day. That ghost hunting show that has some surprises and some bogus reenactments. This episode felt in my soul very genuine. The house first off already had high EMF readings due to the electrical wiring in the house. On top of that, a husband died there falling down the stairs with his liquor. And a wife committed suicide. The people living there now have some "dark-side" history. The guy claimed that he fooled around with "satanism" in high school for fun. Whatever. So when they moved in they have all this footage and some evidence of a haunting. The guy even began drinking when they moved in and his wife starting taking pills. The source of these temptations or "negative" impulses was the imprint from the previous people who died obviously.

But the minute they brought Lorraine Warren to the show she claimed that there was "demonic" attachments". You see until this woman came everything made sense but when she brought her overly zealous religious conviction it kinda made the new home owners feel sick to themselves and consumed by the devil. First off. The "satanism" the guy practiced was obviously of the negative Other Side. Which you could call "The dark side of the Spirit" or the "dark side of the Force" if one wants to be a geek like me :-). You see this woman immediately put a personality on their problems "Satan". The main problem was that t he house was imprinted with a lot of spiritual energy- mainly from the electrical wiring because electricity and spirituality are energies. And there were some negative imprints and negative ghosts left behind mixed with the guy's past of tapping into darker aspects of the spiritual realms. To Lorraine Warren she sensed a "demonic" presence. Fine. If that is what you want to call it, so be it. But don't make absolutes of dark and light. They both come from God's mind and it's his Play, not you're writing. She/He wrote this world!

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

I had this Scripture come to mind this morning. So I began to think, without God there's no evil in the world. God is the measure by which we know goodness. It is by God's moral light, the standard by which we live, the standard that creates goodness. Without God, there's no evil in the world as there's nothing to compare the ungodly, "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved" --John 3:20

ALTER2EGO -to- TEEHEE:

You clearly meant well when you quoted Isaiah 45:7. I note that you quoted from the King James Version (KJV), which is an English translation from 1611. What many people don't realize is that the KJV is full of translation blunders. The quotation you gave above is one of those blunders. According to that quotation, Jehovah created evil--which is entirely erroneous.

Keep in mind that the context of that scripture is in reference to God saying he will reward those who are righteous with peace and prosperity. The reverse is that God will bring punishment or calamity upon those doing wrong--as opposed to "God creates evil."

Below is the same verse of scripture correctly quoted from a variety of Bible translations.

VARIOUS TRANSLATIONS OF ISAIAH 45:7

New World Translation
"Forming light and creating darkness, making peace and creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things."

English Standard Version
"I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things."

New Living Translation
"I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things."

New American Standard Bible
"The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these."

GOD'S WORD Translation
"I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things."

New International Version
"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

World English Bible
"I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things."

Without so called god there cannot be sickness, or what we call good and evil

I don't follow the logic here. From a Christian perspective, the Genesis account of creation indicates an initial state of perfection, which tradition embraces. In a perfect or true state, words like "morality" and "evil" can have no meaning. Something has to precede and give definition to "evil". I beleive this is simple falsity. To put another way, in the beginning all was true, and all goods though good would logically only have been regarded as 'what is', good would also have no meaning in a state of perfection.

When adam ate the fruit, he introduced falsity into his essence. This is evidenced by the fact that after eating he realized he was naked and hid from God where before eating they enjoyed a face to face relationship. All evils or imperfections follow from the false. After falsity (the raw material of sin) entered creation it was rendered imperfect.

Now, the kicker. Whether the Genesis account is literal or figurative is irrelevant to the meaning it presents us imo. Adam's will could never be fully free unless he first experienced evil. A truly free will must be able to fully know and recognize both good and evil in order to freely chose from among them. In this view, evil was a necessary component, the pièce de résistance by God, if you will, to start the process which would raise humanity above a mechanistic understanding to a fully formed free will. It's not until evil plays out entirely that humans will attain a truly free will. Therefore, falsity, the cause of evil, was introduced into existence as a sort of spiritual antibody which has to run its course before we are complete. When it's over, the one who truly understands true and false, good and evil, with full understanding of the benefit or consequence each brings, will never in her right mind choose the false again. Result: eternal perfection, God's plan since the beginning.

btw, in this view morality would be merely the term we use to define the pressure and resistance raised in the mind by the contraries true and false, both of which are woven into the essence of the creation. The false is being gradually purged. My two cents.

[athribiristan]

Originally Posted by Shabby

I disagree. I believe the first part of the O.T. God said let there be light and created then everything and it was good. God has no part in evil, illness, decay, suffering or death.

God created ALL things. We as humans have a choice between good and evil. In order to have a choice between two things they must exist. For something to exist, it must have an origin. Belief in God implies that he is the origin of all things. Simple logic shows that He must have created evil. Additionally, He would have to create evil so that we could choose it, otherwise free will isn't very free. The freedom to choose is meaningless if you only have one option.

[psychoslice]

Without God, Evil does not exists, ....in my own inner experience, both don't exists, this is where the truth of this inner experience, free's one, it takes the burden of having to worship an outside god, and letting me be free to be who I truly am, that is pure Love.

Originally Posted by athribiristan

God created ALL things. We as humans have a choice between good and evil. In order to have a choice between two things they must exist. For something to exist, it must have an origin. Belief in God implies that he is the origin of all things. Simple logic shows that He must have created evil. Additionally, He would have to create evil so that we could choose it, otherwise free will isn't very free. The freedom to choose is meaningless if you only have one option.

ALTER2EGO -to- ATHRIBIRISTAN:

You are under the misguided idea that because Jehovah created everything, it equates to "God created evil." God created things. He didn't create actions. Evil is an action that is performed by individuals. Actions are not "created," actions are "done" by people.

The wrongdoing that God condemns is not something he created: It's something God "defined" as evil. To summarize:

1. God defines what actions are evil.

2. A person who has the choice of performing or not performing the act, DOES the forbidden act that God defined is evil.

You are under the misguided idea that because Jehovah created everything, it equates to "God created evil." God created things. He didn't create actions. Evil is an action that is performed by individuals. Actions are not "created," actions are "done" by people.

but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Mat 5:28)
Sin with no action.


Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. (Jas 1:15)

"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man." (Mat 15:18-20)
Jesus taught that sin begins in the heart [soul, spirit] before it's put into action.

Originally Posted by nancyboy

but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Mat 5:28)
Sin with no action.

Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. (Jas 1:15)

"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man." (Mat 15:18-20)
Jesus taught that sin begins in the heart [soul, spirit] before it's put into action.

ALTER2EGO -to- NANCYBOY:

Jehovah created the vehicle for thinking: the human brain. He didn't create our thoughts; therefore, we're held responsible by him for our bad thoughts.

Lusting involves the act of thinking about wrongdoing. The act of thinking qualifies as "something done by us" rather than something Jehovah created. Remember, God didn't create our thoughts. He created the vehicle for out thoughts: the brain. Therefore, it's up to us as to whether we chose bad thoughts or good ones.


Something coming from one's heart involves one's personal motivations from deep within oneself. The Bible says the figurative heart is the seat of motivation.

"More than all else that is to be guarded, safeguard your heart, for out of it are the sources of life." (Proverbs 4:23)

The fact that the above scripture instructs us to safeguard our hearts is a clear indication that it's up to us how our heart aka our motivation turns out. If God had created peoples' motivations, he would not be instructing people to safeguard their hearts/motivations.