Bahagavad Gita -- Chapter 6

Originally Posted by yes

I would have thought ignorance is the greatest cause of unhappiness.

Ignorance and atheism are synonymous since the atheists are in ignorance of the spiritual Reality.

Originally Posted by Topology

And hows that going for you? It sounds like your god has lost his teeth. No street preacher ever convinced me of anything. For that matter, no preaching ever convinced me of anything. Preaching doesn't hurt atheism. If anything, because you've made yourself a nuisance to others, people will choose to adopt an atheistic attitude towards the god you represent.

"Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth." Bg 7.3
It is a very rare soul who is interested in the Truth, particularly in this age. I am trying to develop myself as a psychic, a healer and further if possible. I this way I want to be able to demonstrate the unseen Reality, practically. People in this age do not have the intelligence or sincerity for philosophy.

Originally Posted by Topology

What you fail to understand about science, I-Ching, is that it is a method of inquiry, not a body of beliefs. Science does indeed explore the world we sense to derive knowledge about the world. But science has nothing to say, for or against about any religion or any God. Science is simply a way of investigating the world. In that, science can be perfectly compatible with your beliefs and my beliefs. Science is not atheistic. Science just has nothing to say about religion.
You see enemies where there are none.

As I have already stated science is based on the belief that we can know the Truth through our senses. As opposed to Thiests who see through the eyes of scripture. Since God can not be sensed science leads to skepticism of the scriptures especially when "scientific" findings differ from the scriptures. Such nonsense beliefs like evolution are examples of that. The vast majority of scientists are atheistic or at least agnostic.
In fact one statistic that I saw showed there was a direct relationship between the increase of inventions and a decrease in religious art work in Europe. Technology increases the illusion that we can enjoy this material world and therefore human society becomes materialistic and less interested in their next life. I think that Adam's eating from the tree of knowledge and therefore falling from Eden is a direct reference to this.

What kind of knowledge are scientists interested in? Knowledge of how to enjoy and exploit this material world. What is result of this knowledge; they have enjoyed and exploited the planet to death.
Are they interested in knowledge of God and the soul ... I think not.

Originally Posted by I-Ching

"Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth." Bg 7.3
It is a very rare soul who is interested in the Truth, particularly in this age. I am trying to develop myself as a psychic, a healer and further if possible. I this way I want to be able to demonstrate the unseen Reality, practically. People in this age do not have the intelligence or sincerity for philosophy.

I have observed that great healers enter the mindset of those they seek to help. Only by understanding what the other is thinking, what the other understands, the other's point of view, can one help. And they, listen.

Originally Posted by I-Ching

Ignorance and atheism are synonymous since the atheists are in ignorance of the spiritual Reality.

Ignorance (avidya) is not the same thing as atheism. A person can be a theist and yet be in ignorance. A person can be an atheist and yet be in ignorance. A person can be a theist and yet not be in ignorance. A person can be an atheist and yet not be in ignorance.

Originally Posted by yes

I have observed that great healers enter the mindset of those they seek to help. Only by understanding what the other is thinking, what the other understands, the other's point of view, can one help. And they, listen.

Absolutely, when we meet our fellow man on their terms, and not on our own, then and only then do we have the greatest capacity to help them along their path.

Originally Posted by I-Ching

As I have already stated science is based on the belief that we can know the Truth through our senses. As opposed to Thiests who see through the eyes of scripture. Since God can not be sensed science leads to skepticism of the scriptures especially when "scientific" findings differ from the scriptures. Such nonsense beliefs like evolution are examples of that. The vast majority of scientists are atheistic or at least agnostic.
In fact one statistic that I saw showed there was a direct relationship between the increase of inventions and a decrease in religious art work in Europe. Technology increases the illusion that we can enjoy this material world and therefore human society becomes materialistic and less interested in their next life. I think that Adam's eating from the tree of knowledge and therefore falling from Eden is a direct reference to this.

What kind of knowledge are scientists interested in? Knowledge of how to enjoy and exploit this material world. What is result of this knowledge; they have enjoyed and exploited the planet to death.
Are they interested in knowledge of God and the soul ... I think not.

I submit to you David Bohm as a scientist who was very interested in spirituality. His dialogues with J Krishnamurti are legend. http://ratical.org/many_worlds/K/

Your generalizations of false stereotypes to universal statement are offensive. There are many people of faith who practice Scientific Inquiry.

While western medicine may be closer to being a form of skilled butchery, you can't argue with its ability to save lives in many many many situations. Transplants, regenerating tissue, stitching up gun shot wounds, vaccines for polio, etc. Western Medicine has its place, and I look forward to when western medicine and complementary medicine work together. But western medicine would not be the success that it is without scientific inquiry.

[peteyzen]

Atheism is the greatest cause of unhappiness on this planet.
originally posted by I ching
with respect my friend i dont think atheism is the greatest danger to happiness in the world, i know some lovely atheists, they just arent interested in spirituality, but act kinder than many so called religious folks. The greatest danger to happiness is EGO.

Its the worm in the apple, it shape shifts, controls and corrupts and is remarkably subtle at doing this. It sits on your shoulder and tells you how strong/clever/devoted you are, whilst shattering everything.
All spiritual endeavours especially worshipping sri bhagavan krishna are ultimately to overcome the ego
the rule of thumb is that if you are in conflict....its the ego.

Originally Posted by yes

Ignorance (avidya) is not the same thing as atheism. A person can be a theist and yet be in ignorance. A person can be an atheist and yet be in ignorance. A person can be a theist and yet not be in ignorance. A person can be an atheist and yet not be in ignorance.

"Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge. When, however, one is enlightened with the knowledge by which nescience is destroyed, then his knowledge reveals everything, as the sun lights up everything in the daytime. When one's intelligence, mind, faith and refuge are all fixed in the Supreme, then one becomes fully cleansed of misgivings through complete knowledge and thus proceeds straight on the path of liberation." Bg 5.15-17

This is the knowledge(jnana) to which I refer. It certainly not possible for an atheist to possess this knowledge. Of course a theist may also be covered by ignorance to some degree, but certainly not as much as an atheist. The philosophy a soul chooses is fundamental indicator to its level of consciousness. Atheism is a philosophy for those in tama guna (the mode of ignorance).

Originally Posted by Topology

Your generalizations of false stereotypes to universal statement are offensive. There are many people of faith who practice Scientific Inquiry.

While western medicine may be closer to being a form of skilled butchery, you can't argue with its ability to save lives in many many many situations. Transplants, regenerating tissue, stitching up gun shot wounds, vaccines for polio, etc. Western Medicine has its place, and I look forward to when western medicine and complementary medicine work together. But western medicine would not be the success that it is without scientific inquiry.

I don't deny that there are theistic scientists. You use a thorn to take out a thorn but doesn't mean the thorn isn't a thorn. We can use science and technology for a good purpose, but we still first have to understand what is the purpose. To get rid of science and technology.

Just because their are some well intentions scientists doesn't make science good. My argument that the science and technology are inherently atheistic still stands.

Ayurveda is far superior form of medicine if their were any qualified practitioners.