Is suffering real ? Is love, joy real?

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Cool . Welcome back . There have been many missing u badly .

In the spirit (pun intended!) of the Non Duality forum I suppose I can say I never left.

[Ewwerrin]

To feel love, you just need to take your awareness and place it on the word love, and hold it there consistently enough that you begin to feel it more and more. Who needs a potion for that?

[1Greg2]

It depends on what you mean by suffering. The question supposes that you know something about suffering, or the question wouldn't be asked. Suffering may be real enough for you, for another it is meaningless, such as an innocent child. I hurt my shoulder awhile back and I suffer. You may call that pain, and not suffering. "Suffer the little children to come unto me," actually means: Allow the little children to come unto ME. Words are tricky and open to interpretation and the interpretations are endless. In the sense of Identity, one suffers if they have an incorrect identity, i.e., something imagined or invented vs. real or true. In the final analysis, that is my definition of suffering.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by 1Greg2

... "Suffer the little children to come unto me," actually means: Allow the little children to come unto ME.

Ah, good previous post...33. :)
Immediately after Jesus transformed into light (!) in front of only 3 disciples...he walked down a path to find a little commotion.
His other disciples were having quite the time not healing an epileptic!
I imagine him rolling his eyes or shaking his head at this, while he said:
Matt 17:17---"...how long shall I be with you? How long must I suffer you? Bring him to me."

I'm going to say suffer means - ANYthing you don't want to have, endure, go thru...the opposite of pleasant or 'nice'.

A reminder - I started this thread as a spin off of an interesting post, just sayin'. :) I thought it was a good topic.
PS I'm not an expert on suffering - I do know I have learned a lot with emotional suffering - such an shame, regret.
So that was a good thing! And needed, imo .

I have experienced pain that I thought only a person walking onto a land mine could feel...omg.
(Only part of my injury was fractured ribs torn away from my sternum, chest bone, well, the cartilage - not to be vague or mysterious.)
Was that beneficial? Well, I sure do understand pain now!!

[J_A_S_G]

Is a dream real? From the perspective within a dream it is, however if one becomes lucid within a dream it's realized as not being real.
It's real because it appears, however 'knowing' reveals it to be unreal.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

Is a dream real? From the perspective within a dream it is, however if one becomes lucid within a dream it's realized as not being real.
It's real because it appears, however 'knowing' reveals it to be unreal.

Yes, this is a common understanding for people coming back from their NDEs - ''Oh, it was only a Dream!'' Often saying
where they visited was the Real World....
Actually that was something a child said to Dr. Raymond Moody that might have started this whole NDE research!

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Yes, this is a common understanding for people coming back from their NDEs - ''Oh, it was only a Dream!'' Often saying
where they visited was the Real World....
Actually that was something a child said to Dr. Raymond Moody that might have started this whole NDE research!

It's harder to explain when that realization (read 'knowing') happens when one is fully awake. Rupert Spira addresses it in a Lucid Waking talk. While the eyes still see, the ears still hear, the nose still smells, the tongue still tastes and the hands still feel something else 'knows' the real in all those experiences, and he calls it the Shining Light of Pure Knowing.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

... he calls it the Shining Light of Pure Knowing.

I call it: The Altered State of seeing Reality....that being: It's all a dream, a hologram, if you will...make believe,
atoms looking like matter...the Cosmic Shape Shifting.
I know , I know I've said this before here, sigh...and I saw THAT at 8 yrs old...and many times later - no drugs or meds.
Why? Who knows.

[Ewwerrin]

Sorry guys, maybe I'm weird, or lets just say I am weird. And I'm just gonna share my perspective here, how I look at this. How I see it. You're completely free to disagree with me. And I don't mean to upset anyone with this comment. The complete opposite.

but I still think that suffering is way too replacable for it to be real. It's so replacable that it even hurts to hold on to it. Where as feeling good is irreplacable. It is the least relative and thus the most in alignment with your true nature. God Source is all over it. Giving it unconditional support.

When you focus on things you don't want, you feel bad. When you focus on things you do want, you feel good. Both are pointing you towards you feeling good. What you don't want is helping you remember what you do want.

Negative emotion and it's extending manifestation of physical pain does not exist in a vacuum. But when you are in a vacuum, what will remain is your eternal joy. You know why? Because it is your true unconditional eternal and infinite nature. That is why it feels good! If it were to feel bad, it would not be indicative of your true nature. It would be indicative of a falsity. An untruth. An unrealness.

If you knew the truth, every single negative emotion would instantly vanish. All pain would instantly dissolve into relief. All doors would instantly open to all that you may ever desire. Because the thing that you don't want has absolutely zero power or realness. The negative emotion is literally pointing you to that which is what you do want, reminding you of it. Negative emotion does not exist for itself. It literally exists so that you can feel good. Your suffering is relative to your satisfaction. Your satisfaction is relative to the absolute. It is like your dna. It is irreplacable. It is the most real thing that can possibly exist.

You don't say "come on lets go and suffer today. I'm really in the mood for some nice suffering."
"Enough dreaming guys, let's go to the real reality, lets smash our heads and suffer. Come on, smack my head, I wanna experience that which is real."
That would be a joke. Suffering has got nothing to do with reality. It is literally for the purpose of you going back to reality.

I don't know, but that's how I look at it. Maybe I'm crazy. I mean. Even if you did agree with me, I would probably still be crazy anyways, so

[Miss Hepburn]

So Erwwinnnnnnn...Have you put to practice what you are preaching?
Ever been in a lot of pain, say from an injury or a surgical procedure?
Have you had every single neg emotion vanish, for example?
Just wondering. I'm doing pretty darn good on the 'Not-suffering' department in this last part of my life. I still hurt myself,
stub my toe. The pain doesn't go away -but now I laugh instantly.

I understand suffering is for the purpose of 'going back to reality'.
Jesus came and showed that...that 'this that we see' is not the reality--
whether it be a storm, water, or death.
So I DO follow.