Meditation as it is

[JustBe]

Maybe in past lives you’ve had to move beyond those ‘torn apart’ so fast to survive. In this life sometimes we move through increments of those past lives, just to feel what was missed in those survival mode times. Like gathering pieces of you to acknowledge and then move forward..

Think wars and terror times wgen so many were persecuted and struggled to survive let alone deal..

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Gem

My teacher explained things to me years ago that I never adopted. I keep an open mind, but it's not my own understanding, iso it doesn't guide me. Maybe one day I'll realise how it 'fits'. Maybe not. It might just be nonsense.

I've agreed with a lot of the stuff you have to say in different places recently so thought I would at least try to make a coherent reply to something...

as far as the relationship between 'knowing' and 'doing' you've kinda hit it spot on in my view. I've sensed there is another way to do things maybe, but, things just don't seem interesting if you can't have some conception of what is going on, however fleeting. So I've never tried to find something else... if you pay attention to what the meditations are saying though you eventually learn that whatever thoughts of what is going on today you have, can change and morph tomorrow into something new and just as beauitful.

when I was young I felt like all the teachers were themselves on the wrong path, so I wasn't going to be able to find a teacher....

now I just agree with you, we each need to find our own path, following someone else's path is just wrong no matter how compelling they want to try to make their own way of life. In some ways my own understanding of this 'reality' builds that in, that everything is set up in such a way as to help people along a path of their own choosing.

But it is somewhat difficult for us because we depend so much on each other for guidance or to be someone to guide, and don't really have any experience in the alternative... back to understanding what is going on, one of the common understandings in this world is you aren't ALLOWED to make things up for yourself on any big topic, you HAVE to get the opinion of others.... it becomes very limiting very quickly. I see the powers that be very much fighting this, but, how do you fight something like that without in turn feeding it? Anything they could tell us to do would just be giving the same guidance they might feel we are already taking too seriously??? Which for me leads into my conception of why things are the way they are. And why I agree with pretty much the whole setup, no matter how heinous others might think it.

anyway there is no one place we all must go to... just because you or I value the things we do that doesn't mean that everyone else must do the same... at the same time we each must find out own path, none of us can dictate what part of reality other people can want to go to. The tao te ching comes out and says this at some point, stating that this idea that one person must value what others have chosen to value is just absurd, and not centered.....

But it is another difficult thing to live through, at least for me.

feel free to ignore me, I only really said what I said because I wanted to make it clear you aren't the only one in this kind of boat

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Maybe in past lives you’ve had to move beyond those ‘torn apart’ so fast to survive. In this life sometimes we move through increments of those past lives, just to feel what was missed in those survival mode times. Like gathering pieces of you to acknowledge and then move forward..

there is probably some of that... as well i think it may be that I'm much older now, difference between being a toddler and just going through the paces that I'm being taught, whereas now I start to consider things a little for myself and wondering about things more?

But I'm also aware though that there are certain things I've always thought were true that would make me move through and beyond things. I'm starting to question though whether I had any clue about what I told myself? And around me seeing reasons to believe that such a question is valid...

on the other hand I don't HAVE to be going down this path of enquiry, it is just what I'm doing. Maybe that is what I should be rethinking next? Maybe life would be somehow better if I weren't always so involved in these kinds of thoughts? But I can't conceive of another wy I guess...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

thoughts of what is going on today you have, can change and morph tomorrow into something new and just as beauitful. I felt like all the teachers were themselves on the wrong path following someone else's path is just wrong no matter how compelling they want to try to make their own way of life. In some ways my own understanding of this 'reality' builds that in, that everything is set up in such a way as to help people along a path of their own choosing.

I wanted to make it clear you aren't the only one in this kind of boat

I found it coherent and thoughtful.

The way I look at it is, there's a truthful path and path that's tempted by desire. One is right and one is wrong, and everyone knows which is which. However, because I hold that self-determination is necessary, if a person decides to go wrong, whether or not they do so consciously, it's their life to live. This is where a person might think their rebuttal is in disagreement with my statement about 'the true way' when it really it isn't. I merely posit that discernment is necessary, and to discern well you have be true and discern truthfully.

I've had exemplary teachers, so not against it, but I think it is true that the majority of self endowed spiritual teachers are misguided and mislead other people who buy into their authority as an advanced spiritual one. A lot of stuff out there is only internet clicks for ad money. They might sell retreats and 'lessons' and private consultations etc. and for the sake of profit and/or grandeur, have impure intentions. The pitfalls are numerous, the conflicts of interest many, so delusion, corruption and bulldust are abundant in the spiritual marketplace.

It brings ethics into question. Trust placed where intent is questionable is risk, and significant harm results.

The more vulnerable are more susceptible, and the unfortunate reality of false prophets means you can't trust easily. In Buddhism we'd categorise this as 'refuge in the sangha', but one has carefully consider if the given 'sanga' is actually trustworthy. One's own discernment is the only true compass - but good discernment is based on truth. The more vulnerable are easily tempted because their suffering is great and there's a sense of desperation.

So, we think meditation is a certain thing, sitting there etc, but it has many dimensions from morality and intent, directly related to trust and refuge, and a direction in nature much like how gravity works in all directions toward the centre.

We discern in basic ways: is it true and thus makes sense? Is it right intent (moral)? Is it resisting/avoiding nature's 'gravity'?

This means it's not a path that is chosen as such, but there's a path that is 'right', and then there's a path of desire/temptation. Staying on the 'right' path is basically the same as saying, 'lead me not into temptation'.

This all means I'm not so tolerant of the whole ' just a choice, works for you, all paths go the sea' mentality. Above are the reasons why I don't ascribe to such vacuous truisms. The confounding factor that makes this sound like a disagreement, when it isn't, is the bottom-line is self determination. However, by saying, 'Choose wisely,' we strongly imply there's a right way and a wrong.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

there is probably some of that... as well i think it may be that I'm much older Maybe life would be somehow better if I weren't always so involved in these kinds of thoughts? But I can't conceive of another wy I guess...

I think it’s a good thing to wonder, question and enquire more. I often wonder where this arose from in myself considering I was so conditioned by others and life. I think the internet was my saving grace. It opened my world in ways I could never have imagined, would happen in the real world around me.

I think we manage as best we can with what we have moment to moment in our lives. So for me, I see it was all ok, regardless of my reasons at any time. I played out stories in my head that in hindsight, I see was an altered reality, where I resided to maintain some measure of my true self. I escaped there and it became my only trusted friend and means of escape from what I knew some where in me was not entirely true.

I think the thoughts can be supportive to open things up inside, but what I’ve learned is that by going into myself in this way, I often have to look more truthfully at what else my inner world wants me to notice. When I do this, drop deep into my being, out of my head, my body begins to unravel everything and then of course those thoughts change or end.

[FallingLeaves]

yeah i was in a little box based on conditioning as well, i so hated it though! I think there were two things that got me going, first after i got attached to the twin (which i didn't know about twins for many many years there was just this tremendous' pull' that I couldn't escape from) stuff started happening that just wasn't supposed to happen according to everything I'd been told lol... nothing unreal in the sense that the reality presented to me seems to be what everyone told me it would be, but well coincidences are one thing but my coincidences turned into kind of a discussion really... anyway... between that and some meditations I was doing I gradually learned to feel my way around. The meditations in part brought me more of an understanding of whagt my body was 'saying' as I tried to ground it... similar to you being able to go within and things sort themselves out I guess. It turns out the body has a lot of stuff to say about 'correct' ways of living as well as how not to do meditations if you want to find useful fruits for your labors lol...

[JustBe]

Yes I understand the pull towards the twin thing. I realised over time and change I was seeking a deeper part of myself through that path. The drawing close to another in this place within, is often met with a similar disconnect in them and a great need to love and be loved, so until you face yourself through them, open to the core it’s a difficult letting go process. Sounds like you found your way through that process. Is the twin thing complete in you now?

I never underestimate this pull, it’s incredibly strong and powerful. So much so, it doesn’t allow you to escape yourself. Whoever and what this ‘other represents’ there is no mistaking the intensity and healing process one can undergo with it.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Is the twin thing complete in you now?

I never underestimate this pull, it’s incredibly strong and powerful. So much so, it doesn’t allow you to escape yourself. Whoever and what this ‘other represents’ there is no mistaking the intensity and healing process one can undergo with it.

i've spent lifetimes trying to make it 'complete' but now I think a lot of the time was just fooling myself that I had actually completed something... it was like putting a bandaid over a boo-boo, to a child the boo-boo seems gone at that point but an adult knows it is still there just hidden now....

im not sure now that it ever can be 'complete' in the sense that I can completely move past it without somehow damaging my own relationship to life in the process... i will concede though that maybe that is just me, expressing myself in my usual unevolved way lol... I really don't know just have the sense that nothing I have tried has brought about any kind of 'permanent' ending between us... and im tired of trying...

but it is becoming complete in the sense that I am more able to accept that I can accept living my life without the need to get completely move past it if that makes sense?

But yeah, the intensity, the healing, the edcuation about life can't be beat... i definitely wouldn't be me if I hadn't had to go through this with her lol... still, sometimes I wonder if even what I found in all this is worth what I had to go through to get here? So much strife sigh....

[JustBe]

It sounds like you’ve found some level of acceptance to move on with your life.



I must share that in my process, the completion came about when I felt the energy of this ‘other’ outside of my own. It took a consistent practice of facing myself in the letting go process, but I definitely felt it’s completion. That was a big turning point. I think these entanglements do run as deep as you create them to be in you. So for me, it was a deep core catalyst to face my deepest fear and my greatest loss.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Her Majesty Justbe

Bows

Hey, lil' miss popular! Can you delete your in-box so I can message you something? Cheers