Am I the only one that can't meditate?

[saurab]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

My point is that, while you have accurately posted the teaching ATTRIBUTED to Tilopa, this does not seem well-suited to anyone who is not on the level of a Naropa or Marpa.

I tend to agree with you that the meditation approach I suggested is not well suited to everyone. In fact, it's usefulness or uselessness depends a lot on the purpose of meditation. The Tilopa style of meditation is appropriate if the purpose of meditation is to empty the mind of all it's contents and at all levels.

Let us see why and how this happens. As you well know thoughts arise through associative thinking and thought energy radiations from tendencies (samskaras). Now, during meditation, if you dont RESPOND to any thought by another thought as a response to it, no matter how wicked or ridiculous or nice it is, what happens ? That tendency reduces just a little bit. The higher matter corresponding to that tendency dissipates just a little bit. If you keep on not responding to these thoughts, then the tendencies start dissipating, until there comes a time when the corresponding tendency is totally exhausted, and there will be no further thoughts of that TYPE. When this is the case with all tendencies then your mind will be totally empty of PSYCHOLOGICAL content. You may still have some random thoughts due to associative thinking, but the tendencies will have been wiped away totally.

If this is what you want (for the tendencies to be wiped away), then this approach to meditation is appropriate.

Another approach to meditation is to pay attention to only the body (and the energy body) and not to thoughts. With this approach also, there will be an emptying of the mind, as there are no filters to stop the outflow of negative thoughts because the whole attention is on the body and not on thoughts. (These filters prevent certain kinds of negative thoughts from arising in the first place... so they will be slumbering in the unconscious). Just because we have a pure conscious mind, does not mean we have a pure unconscious mind. So this approach will empty the unconscious mind of certain negative tendencies.

[saurab]

Also, I forgot to add in my last post that if someone cannot feel the energy body, he or she can learn and be connected to Reiki (universal life force energy). If practiced on oneself seriously for 2-3 hours a day, one can start experiencing the energy body in say 6 months or an year.

What are the benefits of focusing on the energy body instead of thoughts ? The greatest benefit is that the matter corresponding to our tendencies is completely dissipated and transformed into light. This matter is foreign to our Higher Self. In fact it is this matter that surrounds the divine spark in Man and prevents him from reuniting with his or her Higher Self (or atman).

Second benefit is that when you focus on your energy body exclusively, some negative thoughts that are AUTOMATICALLY filtered out from awareness by our conscious mind is allowed to come up, because you are not focusing on your thoughts. Thus, as I stated in the last post, the unconscious mind that harbours these negative thoghts is rid of these negative thoughts too.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

That is an excellent point. It does indeed seem that the more one tries NOT to think about a certain thing, the more likely it becomes that one cannot get it out of one's mind.

Yep - 'what you resist, persists', as Jung so astutely pointed out!

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by saurab

Second benefit is that when you focus on your energy body exclusively, some negative thoughts that are AUTOMATICALLY filtered out from awareness by our conscious mind is allowed to come up, because you are not focusing on your thoughts.

You made a lot of good points in both your posts, but I especially like this one, I've found this to be true in my own experience (the energy body is my primary focus of attention as it happens, that's the method I've personally found the most effective). I think the key thing is just to recognise that the arising of thoughts is just the arising of thoughts, it isn't a problem in and of itself - I think attempting to suppress thoughts is ultimately counter-productive, because it just creates resistance and leads us to feel more contracted, not less.

One point I'm curious about is what you were saying about the matter corresponding to our tendencies being completely dissipated and transformed into light - could you elaborate a little on this, please? When you talk about matter in this context, what are you referring to exactly?

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 31 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by saurab

The Tilopa style of meditation is appropriate if the purpose of meditation is to empty the mind of all it's contents and at all levels.

If this is what you want (for the tendencies to be wiped away), then this approach to meditation is appropriate.

Another approach to meditation is to pay attention to only the body (and the energy body) and not to thoughts ...... this approach will empty the unconscious mind of certain negative tendencies.

First of all, we are in agreement that Tilopa's method "is not well suited to everyone".

Your insightful post suggests that you understand the process of emptying the mind quite well or, at the very least, articulate it quite well. I understand how the Tilopa methodology works for emptying the mind. Cutting thoughts at the root and not allowing the mental associations to arise uncontrollably does indeed work as you described. As a matter of fact, we just had a whole thread here on "how do thoughts arise" and those points came up in that thread. You might find it interesting to scan through that thread.

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...d.php?t=141917


Your points on the unconscious/subconscious mind were equally insightful. You are correct in saying that purifying the conscious mind does not imply that the unconscious/subconscious mind is similarly purified. You mention paying attention to the "energy body" as well instead of just thoughts and that works well too since the "energy body" moves the physical body. (My sense is that you are familiar with the pancha koshas, the five sheaths, in Hinduism, so I think that I can see where you are going with your terminology.)

You have identified several of many valid ways for emptying the mind. As you pointed out, these methods facilitate the process whereby "the tendencies to be wiped away". There are other ways, but these are very good approaches.

Since we are talking Tibetan Buddhism now, I will continue along those lines. You are probably aware that Tibetan Buddhists often compare the process of dying (the Bardos/transitions) with the process of going to sleep. In keeping with that, I have practiced conscious sleep for years whereby the unconscious becomes conscious in the form of dreams which one can watch from start to finish. While the meaning of some dreams may be obvious, the unconscious presents other dreams in symbolic form. In addition, there is another dream-like revelatory experience that goes even deeper. Addressing these dreams is another way in which one purifies one's unconscious/subconscious and this process is well-known not only to Tibetan Buddhists but also to Sufis, Yogis, and other wisdom traditions. (For your information, I went to your website and bookmarked it. I noticed that Milarepa information is prominently displayed on the home page and, as you are probably very aware, Milarepa was very much into dreams. He realized that whatever he could do in dreams was also possible in the "Cosmic Dream" or the so-called waking state that is not really "awake".)

You raise excellent points and I am looking forward to hearing more from you. I plan to visit your website when I have more time as I have already bookmarked it since it seems interesting.


I have one question for you at this time. Does your approach to meditation go further than emptying the mind and wiping away the tendencies?

Thank you for sharing your wisdom on this website.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 32 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by saurab

Also, I forgot to add in my last post that if someone cannot feel the energy body, he or she can learn and be connected to Reiki (universal life force energy). If practiced on oneself seriously for 2-3 hours a day, one can start experiencing the energy body in say 6 months or an year.

Some of my friends are Reiki Masters and I would be very interested in hearing more about your practice of connecting to the Reiki (universal life force energy).

In this respect, I am more familiar with the Hindu conceptual presentation of the pancha koshas (the five sheaths). Would it be accurate to equate what you call the "energy body" with the "pranayama kosha" (the 2nd sheath)?

The Buddha's Satipattana Sutra addresses the five hindrances and then meditations are directed to the body and then the feelings and then the thoughts ...before proceeding to the jhanas (absorptions) that go beyond. Is your "energy body" related to the feelings?

Of course, all of these models are conceptual ways of trying to express the inexpressible. However, it would help me to follow you better if you would elaborate on what you consider the "energy body" to be and what practice you personally recommend in attuning to the "energy body".

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by A human Being

Yep - 'what you resist, persists', as Jung so astutely pointed out!

Jung is absolutely awesome. Thank you so much for posting that quote.

I am going to "steal" it from both you and Jung for future use. I love it.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 34 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by A human Being

... the energy body is my primary focus of attention as it happens, that's the method I've personally found the most effective

As I have already asked Saurab, I would appreciate it if you too would define exactly what you mean by the "energy body". While I have my own understanding of the "energy body", I have often discovered that others may have a totally different understanding. Could you elaborate further on exactly what "method" you have used so effectively with the "energy body"?

[A human Being]

^^saurab and I may have different ideas about what exactly constitutes the energy body, but for me it's the energy field that animates the physical body - it would probably be more accurate to say that I use both the physical and energy bodies as objects of attending, because they're so inextricably linked.

How that works for me in practice is that I'll bring attention to where in my body I might be feeling a particular point of resistance (an energetic blockage, in other words), which for me at the moment would be in my solar plexus/heart region, and then I'll just allow that area to breathe; my attention wanders often, of course, but I just keep bringing it back, and the blockage gradually breaks down and the emotions that had previously been repressed can start to move and release, too. It's a practice I had to figure out for myself when I was suffering with severe anxiety, I don't know if you're going to find it in any meditation manual but it's what's been effective for me.

[saurab]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

(My sense is that you are familiar with the pancha koshas, the five sheaths, in Hinduism...)

Unfortunately, no. I am not familiar with the hindu terminology, although I have a rudimentary knowledge of the pranayama kosha (because of the word prana / energy in the word pranayama). I know one person who practices Kriya Yoga, which is useful for working with the subtle energies, just like Reiki.

You asked me how I connect to Reiki. Well, there is no method. You just do it. In the beginning you get ATTUNED to the reiki energy in an attunement ceremony, and after that for the rest of your life you have access to this wonderful energy. The basic Reiki practice is the laying on of hands on different parts of the body and the different chakras. After some years of practice healing yourself and others,. the energy just flows whenever you think of it. Most people in the Reiki community use Reiki for healing diseases and emotions by laying on of hands. But Reiki can also be used for enhancing your meditation. After a few years or months of regular Reiki practice you can experience this energy surrounding your entire physical body.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I plan to visit your website when I have more time as I have already bookmarked it since it seems interesting. Does your approach to meditation go further than emptying the mind and wiping away the tendencies?

To save you time browsing my website, visit the section corresponding to the first small photo in a series of 5 small photos. Click that first photo, and read the teachings of a spirit guide. Also, click the last photo in that series. In fact this last photo leads to even better teachings especially if you are interested in the Americanized/modern version of Zen Buddhism.

Nothing on my site is my own. Everything is a compilation of articles, pamphlets, book excerpts, out of print book excerpts, etc. These are things I found interesting and useful for me, so I decided to make a website out of it.

You can also visit the Quotes section of the site and maybe pick one quote and meditate on it if you like it.