BLACK SABBATH

[jalini]

But you missed the point; which is how some people will ignore objective evidence and explain it away by a subjective belief.

Many do not seek Certainty and it is evidenced by their desire to wrap emotion around their "findings".

Each soul travels at their own pace on the Spiritual journey. Give them the space they need but be of Service when they ask. A sincere seeker will arrive at objectivity when they least expect it .

blessings, jalini

[Morpheus]

Very well stated, jalini.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by jalini

Many do not seek Certainty and it is evidenced by their desire to wrap emotion around their "findings".

Each soul travels at their own pace on the Spiritual journey. Give them the space they need but be of Service when they ask. A sincere seeker will arrive at objectivity when they least expect it .

blessings, jalini

Mind's Eye is talking about Christians who ignore evidence such as evolution for example, turning a blind eye to scientific findings and instead relying on their 'Certainty', which is their belief that the bible is literal.

Faith and religious/spiritual belief IS subjective. It depends on the person, where they live, their experiences in life, and the things they've decided to believe, or feel like they've been 'lead' to believe. People feel certain about a wide range of different and sometimes conflicting beliefs. The point is not to be 'sure' of what you believe, it's to be transformed by our beliefs to live a life that helps the people around us instead of hurting them.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Mind's Eye is talking about Christians who ignore evidence such as evolution for example, turning a blind eye to scientific findings and instead relying on their 'Certainty', which is their belief that the bible is literal.

Faith and religious/spiritual belief IS subjective. It depends on the person, where they live, their experiences in life, and the things they've decided to believe, or feel like they've been 'lead' to believe. People feel certain about a wide range of different and sometimes conflicting beliefs. The point is not to be 'sure' of what you believe, it's to be transformed by our beliefs to live a life that helps the people around us instead of hurting them.

Hey there! Wash your mouth out. I'm a Christian and I don't fanatically oppose Science, in fact I welcome their input, which helps to reveal how my God created the universe as we see it today from the quantum of the electromagnetic energy that was spewed out in the trillions of degrees, when the singularity of origin was spatially separated by what is called the Big Bang, some 13.73 billion years ago.

Because of the scientific study into the origin of the universe, I know what was in the beginning, which has become what we see today.

The universe is not made from nothing as some seem to believe. This universe of matter (Frozen energy) of which the average temperature today is about 2.73ºC above Absolute Zero, is directly proportional to the liquid like electromagnetic energy that was spewed out in the trillions of degrees at the moment that the singularity of origin was spatially separated.

The quantum of the electromagnetic energy, from which the subatomic particles began to form shortly thereafter when the temperature had dropped to some billions of degrees, may have zero mass and no electric charge and yet carry angular and linear momentum, but those vibrating waves cannot be clasified as nothing.

Those sub-atomic particles were attracted together in the creation of the Atoms which gathered together to create the molecules from which the galaxies and all therein were created, which Galactic clusters are falling in toward a super duper Black Hole, where they will be torn apart molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle, by sub-atomic particle, to create the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin to the next generation of the universe.

People can argue all they like about insignificant details as to how God created all that is, from all that was in the beginning, but it doesn't alter the fact that all that is, has always existed in one form or another.

I believe in creation though the process of evolution of the mind that is God, the cosmic cloud of shimmering invisible waves that have zero mass and no electric charge, yet carry angular and linear momentum.

We know that the Space Shuttle and all its earthly infrastructure was created by design, but no one would believe that our most ancient ancestor who watched a round log roll down of hill and from that was inspired to create the first wheel, had then turned to his human family and said, “Look, I’ve just created the first component that will go toward our future Space Shuttle.”

Each of the untold billions of creations that have evolved from the wheel to the creation of all the intricate and complex technology needed for the creation of the Space Shuttle and all its infrastructure, were simply the products of the heights to which the mind of the creator had evolved at the time of each and all of those creations.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Mind's Eye is talking about Christians who ignore evidence such as evolution for example, turning a blind eye to scientific findings and instead relying on their 'Certainty', which is their belief that the bible is literal.

Faith and religious/spiritual belief IS subjective. It depends on the person, where they live, their experiences in life, and the things they've decided to believe, or feel like they've been 'lead' to believe. People feel certain about a wide range of different and sometimes conflicting beliefs. The point is not to be 'sure' of what you believe, it's to be transformed by our beliefs to live a life that helps the people around us instead of hurting them.

For one, the scriptures are subject to to interpretation, which can be dependant on knowledge, or the lack thereof.
Evolution is all about the, "Time/Space" Construct, or Matrix.
There is that existant, which is apart from the time and space contiuim, and contstruct.
It is referred to as Eternity, or in science also, Infinity, and, the hyperspacial.

So, the, "Fall" involves an alteration,and change from what was, prior, regarding this. ...To what is, presently.
A return to what was is prophesied, and, we are seeing the signs today leading up to it, which had been prophesied.

How can we know this?
Aside from the ancient spiriual teachings, we have today the very many NDE accounts which can be reviewed, largely thanks to modern medical techniques today.
Also, since Einsten, science has been confirming the ancient teachings.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/quotes

"Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
[Neo's eyes suddenly wander towards a woman in a red dress]"

Likewise, also, Jesus equated, "The world, the flesh, and the devil" as enemies of the true personage, the soul.
He stated, believers are, "in the world, not of the world."

So, in the Wachowski's cinematic creation, in popular media the illustration has been made regarding the consensus of science revelations, and the ancient teachings. And, we are without excuse if we ignore this.

[Seawolf]

I was just using evolution as an example to try to clarify what Mind's Eye was saying to jalini.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I was just using evolution as an example to try to clarify what Mind's Eye was saying to jalini.

Nevertheless...

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Nevertheless...

It's as if you're trying to prove that the spiritual exists to an atheist. I don't know what that has to do with the conversation. If someone tries out for my band and they don't end up a member, .. and they go around telling people they were in my band, I probably laugh because it's silly.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

For one, the scriptures are subject to to interpretation, which can be dependant on knowledge, or the lack thereof.
Evolution is all about the, "Time/Space" Construct, or Matrix.
There is that existant, which is apart from the time and space contiuim, and contstruct.
It is referred to as Eternity, or in science also, Infinity, and, the hyperspacial.

So, the, "Fall" involves an alteration,and change from what was, prior, regarding this. ...To what is, presently.
A return to what was is prophesied, and, we are seeing the signs today leading up to it, which had been prophesied.

How can we know this?
Aside from the ancient spiriual teachings, we have today the very many NDE accounts which can be reviewed, largely thanks to modern medical techniques today.
Also, since Einsten, science has been confirming the ancient teachings.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/quotes

"Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
[Neo's eyes suddenly wander towards a woman in a red dress]"

Likewise, also, Jesus equated, "The world, the flesh, and the devil" as enemies of the true personage, the soul.
He stated, believers are, "in the world, not of the world."

So, in the Wachowski's cinematic creation, in popular media the illustration has been made regarding the consensus of science revelations, and the ancient teachings. And, we are without excuse if we ignore this.

[Morpheus wrote].......For one, the scriptures are subject to to interpretation, which can be dependant on knowledge, or the lack thereof.

The Bible interprets itself my dear friend, and proves that the interpretations of the ignorant, who would teach that the sinners suffer eternal punishment in hell, are false and misleading. Wouldn't you agree? See posts #4, 5 and 6, in the thread "There is no Hell."

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by S-word

[Morpheus wrote].......For one, the scriptures are subject to to interpretation, which can be dependant on knowledge, or the lack thereof.

The Bible interprets itself my dear friend, and proves that the interpretations of the ignorant, who would teach that the sinners suffer eternal punishment in hell, are false and misleading. Wouldn't you agree? See posts #4, 5 and 6, in the thread "There is no Hell."

As stated, S-, there is a consensus.
To me there is the situation of immaturity to think there are no consequences to our actions.
Jesus however did describe the situation of, "many lashes", or little.

Regarding consensus, S-...

"The judgment: You are now before Yama, King of the Dead.
In vain will you try to...deny or conceal the evil deeds you have done. ... the mirror in which Yama seems to read your past is your own memory, and also his judgment is your own.
It is you yourself who pronounce your own judgment" ...Buddha
Buddhist Faith, 560 B.C.
Holy Scripture: Tipitaka Quotes from: (The Tibetan Book of the Dead)