Does atheism discourage values?

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

well some religionists feel they must compete with other religionists and even feel they must compete with those who lack a "God" concept. imo, if one is secure in one's faith one doesn't feel compelled to compete, one doesn't point to others and say "look at how much better I am b/c I worship my preferred god" nor does a spiritually secure person use the demonization of others as contrast tool for self aggrandizement.

if someone's religious belief system (or lack thereof) threatens you then that's YOUR insecurity and maybe you should be looking to remove the plank from your own eye.

Pardon me for butting in. What you say is of interest.

It is the nature of we humans to compete. As we know all animal life on this planet does so it various ways. Since humans have a lot more mind than lower animals we use ideas. We tend to fight with ideas. The immature among us also tend to advance ourselves by speaking poorly of the ideas of others with whom we find ourselves in opposition. This is so easy to see in politics (negative ads).

No. A spiritually mature person will never attack another but when those attacks are directed towards us we easily deflect them because we understand their sources and forgive.

Blessings...

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Let me ask this.
With respect to Materialism, and the world oriented materialist mindset.... who do you suppose is guilty of the greed involving the last, (not to mention prior), stock market collapse which affected the world globally?
"Religionists", so called, or Atheists?

Bankers, some of whom were atheists, some, Jews, some Buddhists, some Hindus - but I suspect that the majority were Christians.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Sorry... who lacks objectivity and self limits their intake of information..?

Many misguided people who wish to support their preconceived ideas - fundamentalist religious types mostly.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

The other aside question also may be, Ecth., while claiming to be spiritual, and a believer in God, why are you so vigorously and continually taking a defensive position for Atheism?

Simply because I hate to see anyone - regardless of their beliefs, skin colour, physical abilities etc. - victimised. Some of the accusations being made against atheists on this thread are totally untrue and downright rude.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

I'll say it again, the Atheist has no scruples. Including pretense, falsehood, and Lying.

And I shall reiterate; this is untrue.
I've already said that I was an atheist for many, many tears yet still upheld the same morals I have today.
I have known many atheists and many religious folk. It seems to me that there are an equal number of moral or immoral people to be found, whatever their beliefs.
If believing in God makes one moral then please explain the witch-burning of the middle ages, the suicide bombs of religious fanatics, the crusades against the 'infidels', and more recently, the corruption of catholic priests.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

What are you defending?

Freedom of belief.

[Holly]

Originally Posted by Mazulu

In a country where atheism squeezes out religion, what happens to values? What happens to honor, integrity, virtue, modesty and loyalty when belief in God is discouraged? What about respect for others? What about culture? It seems to me that atheism has destroyed American culture. In a world dominated by atheism, nothing is sacred; not your body, not your values, nothing. Everything is reduced to money, sex and power.

Implication; we need God to make us behave like good people.

Don't you think that even if America was 100% religious, the religious themselves would have found a way to corrupt their faith to turn it to money, sex and power? I do. I think they bent Christianity so they could justify the witch hunts. They bent Islam into Female Genital Mutilation and male superiority. Why can't they bend religion into sex, money and power?

I don't think people need Gods commandments to stay good. I think they just need compassion, which is a state of personal awareness. Faith can actually destroy natural compassion by limiting it to certain parameters and by justifying things like 'holy wars' and 'sin.'

We don't need more religion. We need less ego, greed, stupidity, selfishness and cruelty. I hate to say it but I've met religious people who have all those in abundance and atheists who are 100% good people.

Originally Posted by Holly

I hate to say it but I've met religious people who have all those in abundance and atheists who are 100% good people.

I've had the opposite experience. I know many religious and spiritual people; they are the kindest and nicest people I know. In contrast, I've come into contact with atheists on the internet who are apathetic to the suffering of others. Their attitude is best summarized as follows:
What! You feel like life has no meaning because we keep telling you that you have no soul? Har har har!!! My life has meaning. Too bad so sad.

Meanwhile, we come to find out that we really do have a soul.

[Internal Queries]

generally when i first meet people i don't ask what they believe or don't believe concerning "God", religion, spiritual concepts etc. i was raised to consider it rude to inquire about such personal things of a stranger. what's interesting though is that if someone is a kind person and they share their faith or lack thereof it doesn't matter so much what they've shared only that they've shared it. and conversely if they're a mean and unpleasant person it STILL doesn't matter since whatever they share is delivered with nastiness and i want nothing to do with it no matter what the message is.

labels make for easy generalizations.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

generally when i first meet people i don't ask what they believe or don't believe concerning "God", religion, spiritual concepts etc. i was raised to consider it rude to inquire about such personal things of a stranger. what's interesting though is that if someone is a kind person and they share their faith or lack thereof it doesn't matter so much what they've shared only that they've shared it. and conversely if they're a mean and unpleasant person it STILL doesn't matter since whatever they share is delivered with nastiness and i want nothing to do with it no matter what the message is.

labels make for easy generalizations.

Nice avatar.

I was listening to an episode of Skeptiko in which Alex Tsakiris proved that a skeptic deliberately lied about a psychic medium that was working with the police. The investigator stated that this psychic correctly tuned into the killer, that the killer was in prison in Florida and had killed another inmate. The skeptic was told, over the phone, that the psychic got it right. Then, the skeptic lied on the air, saying that the psychic merely guessed that the murderer was in the south somewhere. Episode 238.

When it comes to the paranormal, skeptics will lie, manipulate and wave away evidence. They will deliberately make psychics and paranormal events looks stupid, silly and woo.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

labels make for easy generalizations.

Hooray!!! Some sense at last.
Well said IQ.

Originally Posted by Mazulu

When it comes to the paranormal, skeptics will lie, manipulate and wave away evidence

This can be turned around. Some people will believe what they want and disregard all of the evidence which goes against their beliefs.
There can be fault found on both sides. Each person is an individual rather than an atheist/believer. We can't judge a whole group because of the actions of a few.

[Morpheus]

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." -Einstien

If we're quoting scientists now, to support religion, then I'd better quote one supporting atheism - just to balance things out.

"There is no heaven or afterlife for broken-down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." - Stephen Hawking.