The gospel of Christ

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Jatd

I am just catching up on this reading, and so far I have a few questions I am hoping you guys can answer for me, just to help me understand better..

Pete - Can you tell me where I can find this information so I can read it. I've heard this before and I just want to try and understand it better.

Morpheus - Who are HIS people?

I'll stop there for now but I'm still reading everything!

You know jatd, doesn't seem to me that you are as serious as you claim to be.
Who are His people? Really?

Everything and all are His children by Creation, but, relationship wise? Evidently not, as observed in the world.

His people, those who seek Him in Truth, and are recipients of His Grace. Who believe in and trust in Him.

Originally Posted by PeteC-UK

Hi Folks..

Kjw; You think Im making this stuff up eh..?..Well,as Ive been asked for clarity by Jatd,I will lay it all out for you to plainly see..

For a start,its written in your bible mate - gospel of John..Yeshua explains that His Father is something they do NOT KNOW YET..Follow this,for its plain to see - Ch 8,vs 25:

"25 “Who are you?” they asked. - “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

HE who sent me - if he meant yahweh/jehovah,then He would SAY so - instead He makes it very clear that this is something DIFFERENT..HE does NOT use any name or term that THEY are familiar with - "he who sent me" obviouslymeans someone THEY DONT KNOW !!

Lets continue and see..

27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”

Very clear again..They did NOT UNDERSTAND abut HIS Father - but look,they DO UNDERSTAND about YAHWEH !! OBVIOUSLY they do,because the whole religion up to this point has been ALL ABOUT YAHWEH - but heres my mate telling them SOMETHING NEW,that they DONT UNDERSTAND..NOTE - it says HIS FATHER,as opposed to THEIR GOD !!

Ok,lets continue,theres much more :

"31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” - 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

So,hes just told them a new truth and says this knowldge will set them "free"...FROM WHAT ..???..Well surely then truth,frees us from lies,deceit,errors..?..Hes just told them then,their former beliefs are all those things,Hes told them they are DECEIVED,and they dont like it at all..

"34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[b]”

Ok - so I dont want to lose anyone here - I must explain,"sin" according to Christ,is everything connected to this "lower mind" - it means basically to "miss the mark" - be less than perfect - so in this spiritual sense,it surely means here to be less than Divine - to use the mortal mind for guidance instead of the Divine communion that He is teaching us about...

So Hes told them they are living a lie,and that He is directly from the true Father - something they dont yet know or understand - and He says He has come to free them from their misconceptions and errors..NOTE HERE - verse 38 He makes another CLEAR DISTINCTION between THEIR god and HIS Father..He says HE is doing what He was told by HIS Father,and THEY are doing what they are taught by THEIR FATHER - and as we know their father thus far,is yahweh/jehovah god of the bible they worship,dont they..?..And He just made it clear,He is speaking ofsomething entirely different..

Its really easy to follow...Lets continue..They say they are Abrahams descendants following the god of Abraham - and Chirst says :

"Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Couldnt be clearer really...Hes told them of HIS Father - said it ws something entirely new and unknown - said that they have been lied to and deceived - said that there god is actually the devil,father of lies...

SO NO - NOT me making stuff up - but it is me being brave enough to admit the truth before my eyes..And see,thats not the ONLY place to find it...Now earlier,Morph makes a very VALID observation.He said that Christ is speaking about the same deity but the passage means the jews dont understand their own god - and I said I had alredy considered that scenario and could prove it incorrect - that was a wrong interpreatation,and now Im going to show why that is so...First,I remind you all - the jews KNOW THEIR GOD INTIMATELY !!

Their WHOLE CULTURE,whole DAILY LIFE is firmly rooted in their religous doctrines...Tey literally live breathe eat slep the religon - it affects,dictates,influences,EVERY ASPECT OF THEIR LIVES !!

To say then that passage means they have misinterpreted their god,is more than a little presumptious and extremely inaccurate..The jews had a n intimate DIRECT RELATIOSHIP with their deity yahweh,and this is precisely why they are offended by Yeshua and His NEW teaching...

I have shown clearly,even in the bible there,Yeshua is speaking about something ENTIREY NEW,that NO ONE had ever before encoutered...That passage in John makes it abundantly clear - but as I say,there are OTHER SOURCES AS WELL - actually far more reliable sources at that,becasue well,these others - lost gospels - banned by the church - called gnostic text these days - well,as said far more authetic by virtue of that very fact - THEY WERE LOST - BURIED for 1700 years - which means the churh cDID NOT CORRUPT THEM - and so,when they were refound,we can be sure they are ACCURATE,reliable,FIRST HAND ACCONTS - buried on purpose to HIDE THE TRUTH,as this church tortured an murdered anyone who had access to it !!

THINK ABOUT THAT - WHY dd the church do that heinous act..?..They killed people simply for telling the story a little differntly..Evil..They did that despicable atrocious things because of ONE REASON - these books tell us clearly that the Father Christ speaks of ,is NOT tthe god of the jews - and this means those who had power were about to lose it completky - obviously - because look if the god they worship is bogus,then so to is the religon that follows it - they lose thier authority if Christ speaks the truth...And so,they DESTROY THE TRUTH - and we are left squabbling and squirming over its tatters...Well - some of you squirm - for my Self,this truth sits most comfortably indeed,makes perfect sense..Lets continue then - other sources..

You know nearly ALL the disciples ACTUALLY HAVE A GOSPEL...Why is it then that only those 4 are found in the bible..?...What about the rest..?...Some of them have MULTIPLE gosples - but they get overlooked also...John here for instance,has this gospel quoted above,canonised,ordained - but along side this HE HAS ANOTHER,a SECRET book ot os caled,but this one is deemed heretical,banned and those who held it were MURDERED....WHY is that - I ask time and time again - but its just blank stares all round - not even a hope of an answer..Well - its a rhetorical question anyway for as I say the answer is so so obvious...These gopsels got banned simlpy becasue the wisdom they contain would make the church obsolete overnight - completly irrelevant in fact - a church that worships a lesser form of Divinity - and to commune direclty with the AUTHENTIC GREATER FORM,needs no intermediary at all - hence that religion would lose its hold,its unfluence,its power and the priests would lose their status and authority immediately...Work it out,its not rocket science...

So these other gospels - and what they ACTUALLY CONTAIN - the WHOLE STORY..Taken from Yeshuas DIRECT CONVERSATIONS,found in the gospel of Judas,Secret Book of John,3 gospels by Thomas,plus Philip,Peter,Mary of course,plus gospel of Truth,which may actually be Yeshuas OWN gospel if you want a gospel of Christ then THERE,we have it..THESE books continaHis truth..If you need such an external source,there are plenty that tell far far more than the bible does..Read it all there in these other gospels..

Christ explains who and what the Father is - how creation happens - why it happens..He tells of His own origins,and that of a Divine female counterpart,known as Sofia..Christ says first that there is this "mistaken creation" in the Fathers realm as His counterpart Sofia tries to create ALONE without Him - He tells us she hides her mistake away seperate from the Fathers abode - He tells us this being that is created is known in the Divine realm as various names,Yaldaboath and Sacklas,Nebro amongst others,but we know him as Jehovah - we can be sure He means Yaldaboath IS jehovah,because everything that this mistaken being Yaldaboath does,is attributed to this god jehovah in the bible - Christ says Yaldaboath CREATES ADAM AND EVE - and He says this Yaldaboath does this to mimick a PERFECT CREATION by the Father caled by Christ,ADAMUS..

Do you see then - two narratives - one bible,and one bY CHRIST HIMSELF !! Bible narrative,told from jehovahs perspective,where HE is supreme diety - and the other perspective told by Christ where this god jehovah is just ONE AMONGST MANY,and beyond them all,is found the true source,the Father,as Christ always says it..

There is no mistake - there is no speculation - and IM CERTAINLY NOT making this up - direct from CHRIST HIMSELF,comes the heirachy of of ALL CREATION,from the very first stirring of the Father - down through THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY seperate realms,with like number of "lesser gods" and THEIR creations also..We are a part of all that,filtered down from the one source..Christ lays out OUR PLACE clearly,tells us THIS realm,is PURPOSEFULLY HIDDEN to hide this mistaken creation,the demigod Yaldaboath - and make no mistakes here,for He said very very clearly,this same mistaken demigod,jehovah/yaldaboath,CREATES ADAM AND EVE to mimick the Father above - one and the same entity for sure !!

Therefore,we can be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN - IF we trust Christ that is - that the god who created US here,whom we know now as Jehovah,is NOT the source of ALL CREATION,and CANNOT BE the true Father..Look what Yeshua says,add it up - the following is from a face to face conversation Christ and Judas had,the night before He is arrested..Here Christ is explaining EVERYTHING to Judas - start to finish - NO SPECULATION NEEDED,becuase here it is plain to see Gospel of Judas:

“Come, that I may teach you about secrets no person has ever seen. For
there exists a great and boundless realm, whose extent no generation of angels has seen,in which there is a great invisible Spirit,which no eye of an angel has ever seen,no thought of the heart has ever comprehended,and it wasnever called by any name"

SEE THE OBVIOUS - secrets that NO PERSON has seen,a realm that no one has EVER encountered,not even OUR ANGELS He said..Something then ENTIRELY NEW TO US - most definately NOT the same thing then,as the jews already knew and comprehended,but something DIFFERENT to all that,and PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN by ANYONE EVER - and this source He spoke of,importantly HAS NO NAME - again,most definately NOT then,the god of the jews..It has no name He says BECAUSE IT IS THE SOURCE OF CREATION,and there is none BEFORE IT to name it thus..

Indeed,He goes on to explain HOW CREATION HAPPENS - what came FIRST and WHAT FOLLOWS and WHY..He recounts lots and lots and lots of creation BEFORE we enter the picuture at all - talks about the prime 72 ArcAngels creating their legions of angels,their heavens,their worlds,5 each,hence we have 360 PRIMARY layers,each then divided again and agin into subrealms,with their own Angelic heirachy as well..LOTS OF IT,and no mention at all of US HERE..

To John He explains all this again - but from the deeper perspective again - indeed,a direct spiritual revelation - gives to John the knowledge of the direct DIVINE MIND,and to John He explains HOW and WHY both CHRIST and SOFIA come to actually BE - who and what they ACTUALLY ARE,in relation to the FATHERS DIVINE MIND !!

To hear of Sofia then,and her mistaken creation,we need change sources slightly,and go to John and his "secret book" - and YES,this is SAME John who has a CANONISED gospel in the bible also - and yet here,he has ANOTHER GOSPEL that is deemed HERETICAl - one has to ask HOW is that even possible - one minute hes a saint,next hes the devils mouth piece it seems - go figure - perhaps his gospel here is banned,because simply,it deals with the metaphysical truth of all this,the TRUE SOURCE itself,for you will find John describe the Father in detail here,and again,it is NOTHING LIKE the bible version..John says for instance :

"The One is not a being among other beings It is vastly superior It is outside of realms of being and time"

Ah see - NOT a being among other beings,and existng fully OUTSIDE any material realm or time span..Sound anything like "jehovah in heaven WITH HIS ANGELS"..?.. NO !! Jehovah is not the Father,source of ALL CREATION,that Christ taught of..

But back to the task at hand,and Sofias mistake..Having explained Her origins,and Christs of course - John says the following,from the Secret Book Of John :

"She intended to reveal an image from herself To do so without the consent of the Spirit, Who did not approve, Without the thoughtful assistance of her masculine counterpart, Who did not approve. Without the Invisible Spirit’s consent Without the knowledge of her partner She brought it into being. Because she had unconquerable Power Her thought was not unproductive. Something imperfect came out of her Different in appearance from her. Because she had created it without her masculine counterpart She gave rise to a misshapen being unlike herself. Sophia saw what her desire produced. It changed into the form of a dragon with a lion’s head And eyes flashing lightning bolts. She cast him far from her, Outside of the realm of the immortal beings So that they could not see him. She had created him in ignorance. Sophia surrounded him with a brilliant cloud, Put a throne in the center part of the cloud So that no one would see it. Except for the Holy Spirit called the Mother of the Living She named him Yaldabaoth. "

So,there it is then - NO SPECULATION AT ALL - NOT MADE UP - NOT LIES - taken from Christs direct revelations..We can already see clearly,the Father is definately something different,becasue Christ made that very clear - NOBODY had EVER encountered it before Him..And we know for sure,this Sofia exists,and that She made a mistaken creation,becasue Christ just revealed it to John above..We know for sure She named her mistaken offspring Yaldaboath,and we know for sure,She purposefully hid it out of shame..Now I will show you all,how this creature,named here as YALDABOATH,will be said by Christ,to be the SAME DEITY that creates Adam and Eve - we know that deity of ocurse,as Jehovah,hence Christ is telling us here,that this demigod HE calls Yaldaboath IS indeed Jehovah..Watch - back to Judas:

"And look, from the cloud there appeared an angel whose face flashed with fire and whose appearance was defiled with blood. His name was Nebro,which means ‘rebel’; others call him Yaldabaoth and Saklas."

See,He agrees with what He told John above..And next He says how this Yaldaboath creates HIS heavens,HIS angels,and importantly,watch this :

"“Then Yaldaboath said to his angels, ‘Let us create a human being after the likeness and after the image.’ They fashioned Adam and his wife Eve, who is called, in the cloud, Zoe. For by this name all the generations seek the man, and each of them calls the woman by these names."

Ah see it clearly now - He just told us a mistaken demigod called Yaldaboath created ADAM AND EVE..And we know this demigod as JEHOVAH..And look clearly - same thing is attributed to the deity,for doesnt the bible have Jehovah making THAT VERY STATEMENT..?..Day six of creation in genesis - jehovah proclaims the very same thing..And yet - LOOK at all that came before that the Genesis account has no idea of,but CHRIST relays in this intricate detail !!

Really,its so so obvious - the god of the bible can not be the Father that Christ spoke of..NO speculation - not made up fantasy - not even hard to follow - just put the Word of CHRIST,before the word of religion and church - listen to the source,as HE TOLD IT,without the religious bias and without our 2000 years of preconceptions...If there was really a true Gopsel of Christ then it would surely have to contain all this..

For those with ears to hear - for those who dare to hear..

This proves your theory wrong about not knowing God--John 4:22-24--as well John 17:1-6---one had better know the Father.

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Jkw; Honestly mate - I would just quit right there if I were you - literally EVERYTHING you present as a quote,means the OPPOSITE of that which you think..How many times must I advise this - KEEP IT IN CONTEXT !!

John 4:22-24 - Christ is traveling,comes across a town in Samaria and stops for a drink at "Jacobs well"..Now,the jews arent suposed to have any dealings with Samaritans,they dont mix by choice,keep themselves seperate - and yet Chirst asks this woman for a drink,starts a conversation in which He reveals YET AGAIN,that HIS FATHER,is NOT KNOWN by these others..

First He PROVES HE is Christ by teling her of her hsitory and present life,which obviously He shouldnt really know at all UNLESS He is truly Divine..Ok she says,you ARE Christ,now teach me..She says their fathers worship at this mountain,but the jews say the proper place to worship is Jerusalem..Guess what Christ says though..?...He says that NEITHER PLACE,not moutain NOR jerusalem,is to be the TRUE place of worship..Listen,and see the error,yet again :

"21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

KEEP IT IN CONTEXT..She just asked Him to TEACH HER of this NEW WAY - and immediately He tells her - YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU WORSHIP (at this moutain OR in jerusalem)..He says THAT worship is for the JEWS ALONE - THEIR GOD - but He now will give a NEW WAY such that she may know the TRUE Father "in spirit and truth"...

EVERYTHING you present,just confrms my position ever more securely..The problem is,you have a bias and an agenda toward the religion,and so invariably,you try to skew things to your peconceived ideas..KEEP IT IN CONTEXT though,see WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WHY - dont just pick a few words and blindly believe...It is clear here yet again - Christ is explaining something NEW,that neither jew nor samaritan had encountered before,hence neither the mountain of their forefathers,NOR the temple at jerusalem He says are the PROPER form of worship..

Same for your other quote - John 17:1-6..NOTE ; Christ says about the Father - "I have REVEALED YOU " - let it sink in - again - REVEALED - what does that ACTUALLY MEAN..?..

You can only REVEAL something that is HIDDEN,or something that is SECRET and UNKNOWN...!!

Your god jehovah/yahweh though - he is NOT hidden,secret OR unknown - he is THOROUGHLY UNDERSTOOD,and already openly worshipped..NOT what Christ is speaking about then,can NOT be..

Let it sink in a bit more - and realise finally,that Chirsts Father is SOMETHING NEW that NONE had encounterd before..EVERY thing He says,points to this truth,and He even says it openly,up front and straight to their faces - your "god" is NOT the Father Christ REVEALED !!!


EDIT; Kjw; I just found something that you posted recently - id like to draw your attention to it..

"I have studied Jesus' truths for a long time-- I attended different denominations--not in a single one was Jesus' truths taught( just in a fake kind of way)have no fear though--a single teaching from Jesus points one to his real teachers."


Ok,so Im genuinely laughing now - not at you at all - but at the sheer wonderment of the Holy spirit...Let it isnk in a bit...

Soyouve been seeking Christs truth for ages and ages - many churches you said,and NONE of them had that truth,only a FAKE kind you say - then you say "a single teachng from jesus points to his real teachers" - well,heads up then mate - take a look around...You searched - you found nothing useful - perhaps you have been led here to hear something valid for a change...Im not mocking - I tell you straight - the Holy spirit is my constant companion,I knoiw how these things work...Seems you have been shown precisely that which was needed to be shown...How you react t othisnew teaching is of course,entirely your own path - I just provide signposts along the way...

PeteC.

Yes Jesus even warned that ones living in darkness do not know the one who sent him--as a bad thing to not know him.---I will repeat---one had better know the Father.

[Jatd]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

You know jatd, doesn't seem to me that you are as serious as you claim to be.
Who are His people? Really?

Everything and all are His children by Creation, but, relationship wise? Evidently not, as observed in the world.

His people, those who seek Him in Truth, and are recipients of His Grace. Who believe in and trust in Him.

You're so funny. You can't simply answer a question without insulting someone or putting them down.
I'm asking a genuine question, I'm sorry that bothers you. Why not just ignore me rather than insult me?
Seems to me, you're just like every other pathetic Christian I know, so smart and knows so much more than the little man beneath him.
Maybe you should get your nose out of the clouds.

I was asking because the bible talks about his elect quite often.
It speaks of these elect as if God has chosen them himself. Is this the case, or is it us humans who decide on Christ/God? Because it can't be both.
And if God chooses us, what about the others? Why does he not chose them? Why even create them if you know you're not going to choose them and you're going to throw them into the fire? For fun? To watch them scatter around like mice in a maze?
Or what about those who WANT to choose God, but they just aren't the chosen wants so too bad so sad. SOL.



.

[Morpheus]

No, I don't think you are. And, no. Isn't a laughing matter.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1062997#post1062997

Originally Posted by Jatd

You're so funny. You can't simply answer a question without insulting someone or putting them down.
I'm asking a genuine question, I'm sorry that bothers you. Why not just ignore me rather than insult me?
Seems to me, you're just like every other pathetic Christian I know, so smart and knows so much more than the little man beneath him.
Maybe you should get your nose out of the clouds.

I was asking because the bible talks about his elect quite often.
It speaks of these elect as if God has chosen them himself. Is this the case, or is it us humans who decide on Christ/God? Because it can't be both.
And if God chooses us, what about the others? Why does he not chose them? Why even create them if you know you're not going to choose them and you're going to throw them into the fire? For fun? To watch them scatter around like mice in a maze?
Or what about those who WANT to choose God, but they just aren't the chosen wants so too bad so sad. SOL.



.

The elect are the anointed--the little flock, These Rev 14:3--have this hope--Rev 20:6--they are numbered-144,000--no more--no less.

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Jatd; Yes,you have it correct - according tot he christian religion,it is their god who ALREADY chose whi to save and who to condemn,EVEN BEFIRE the world was formed,THEY say..

"And if God chooses us, what about the others? Why does he not chose them? Why even create them if you know you're not going to choose them and you're going to throw them into the fire? For fun? To watch them scatter around like mice in a maze? Or what about those who WANT to choose God, but they just aren't the chosen wants so too bad so sad. "

Indeed,WHAT ABOUT the others..?...Seeems you are correct here also - perhaps the "others" are just for this gods amusement,and their lives and Souls are forfeit again,even before they are created...Really makes you wonder about this god,ths religon,doesnt it..?..

Its obvious WHY they promote it that way - elect and hopeles sinner - for then they have control - you are damned they say - they are chosen - follow THEM and be saved...But look - what a LIE - because their god said he ALREADY CHOSE,regardless what we do,we remain either "elect" or "hopeless sinner"..Yet more glaring hypocrasy from this sham spirituality..

Of course,Christ told it differently - no one is a lost hopeless sinner HE said - depite what they tell you,He says it differently...I my Self,am the living proof of that and I will state quite firmly,adamantly,that actually Christ found ME - even when I was actively mocking and denying Him,and even though I was doing all manner of things that are against both mans laws AND the bibles code of conduct - STILL,Christ showed up regardless..HE didnt judge me at all - that was all down to me..This "elect" then - again - is not what they believe it is..

Indeed - it was I who elected my Self..Most definatley it happened that way..I CHOSE IT,ALLOWED it ..See,I HAD been seeking,in earnest so I thought - in prison - but when I got out - well,I just took the p%ss - literally mocked my previous beliefs out loud - only to later have a most extraordinary encounter that would change my life for ever..I was so terrified that I shied away completly,denied it had happened for a while,as it realy did dstroy me emotionally - totally made me humble and wretched,scared for my very Soul,becasue well,it was AUTHENTIC Divinity I encountered,and it has a habit of doing that to us lowly mortals...

After I got over my Self and was finally prepared to face some painful home truths - I sougt Him again,and well,again NO JUDGEMENT BY HIM - He reponds just as He said - knock,the doors will be opened He said,seek and you will find He said..WE elecct our Self and that is the "way of it"...The trick is of course,is to first KNOW HOW to "knock" the doors,and seek Him out in aproper manner - as HE advised DIRECTLY..A big big clue - it is not done in a church or found in a book He said,but deep within the secret silence of your own mind,there is the gateway - pass THIS door and you elect your Self,push your Self to meet Hima nd tat the same instant,call Him to your Presence..

Rev 14:2 " And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

Jkw; I started the quote from a verse earlier,so we get a clearer picture..Now no doubt you are about to call me a liar,if only in your head - but I swear to you - that encounter I mention above - this quote fits it perfectly..I - lowly little drug taking adulterous thief,bully,fraiudster,swindler,idol worshippng low life - most depsicable human cockroach - fresh out of prison andnot for the first time either - and yet I heard just as it says,an ANGELIC CHOIR,simply the most AWESOME experience of my pitiful life - done for ME - they came FOR ME - in that lowly despicable state,I was ACCEPTED WITHOUT JUDGEMENT !!! Am I one of your "elect" do you thnk..?..

" Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."

The 1st ressurectioon - He means a DIRECT SPIRITUAL ENCOUNTER - you know an actual and bona fide astral projection into another spiritual realm - such that finally once and for all the mortal self realises that ACTUALLY,it is more than a physical form,such that FINALLY it takes its Soul as valid and authentic - thus the SOUL becomes BORN AGAIN - resurrected,WHILST the body still lives,now knowna s authentic and the livng presence begins to manifest...

THIS happens to ANYONE - as my own circumstances show adequately..We ELECT OUR SELF,as and when we are willing to finally seek the truth of our SELF - for didnt my mate tell us CLEARLY - I and the Father are ONE - BECOME ME - reveal the LIVING Presence,the Kingdom apparant HERE and NOW....NOT some future life,after life for a lucky few who are chosenand "elect" - that is just a sham to keep the priest inpower and authoirty over you - allow Chirsts truth and see through the deceptions..Seek it within your Self,BECOME the elect...

Originally Posted by Jatd

I was asking because the bible talks about his elect quite often.
It speaks of these elect as if God has chosen them himself. Is this the case, or is it us humans who decide on Christ/God? Because it can't be both.
And if God chooses us, what about the others? Why does he not chose them? Why even create them if you know you're not going to choose them and you're going to throw them into the fire? For fun? To watch them scatter around like mice in a maze?
Or what about those who WANT to choose God, but they just aren't the chosen wants so too bad so sad. SOL.

This whole thread have made me think and especially what Pete points at makes sense when you read it word by word. It also makes sense when you have dealt with Yahweh from a point of view where you are not on his good side

Though I quote this because it made me look at the Book of Genesis and it really makes no sense at all. Where does all the people suddenly come from after Adam and Eve if thrown out of the Garden of Eve. Cain builds a city for his son Enoch (which is also a name of a descendant of Seth the third son of Adam), but a city for whom? and who is Cains wife because in this part of the Genesis Adam and Eve has had no daughters yet. It makes no sense unless there were "humans" on Earth before Yahwehs versions Adam and Eve was thrown into the mix. If anyone can explain it please do so...

[Morpheus]

The Christian Faith is not based upon understanding of all the details.
There are explanations certainly.
Not knowing all the details also, is not a reason to dismiss the Gospel, as well. As communicated to us by the writings through the ages. Old Testament, and the New.

The Christian Faith is based upon the reception of the Good News of God's love for us in the atonement of His only begotten Son, also called the "Lamb of God" given for our sins.
Which understanding the disaffected towards the Faith reject, asserting there is no sin. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, both in history... and evident in current events, today.

Which Gospel is gratefully recieved, and with resultant joy, by "the elect", and those predestined, apart from time, to recieve it.

Which are countless many though the ages since.


To strain at the gnat, as it were, regarding insignificant historical facts, is to maintain a ground level mindset and viewpoint... which is errant, and folly.
Which many want to do becaue of Ego, and with resulting destructive end, and consequence. As attested to and related to us in God's Word.

The Heavenly perspective and, "birds eye view", is to understand the message, about God's love for us, in the situation of substitutional atonement, which we see ordained by God from the very beginning of the writings.

You need to refocus, and reconsider.

Regarding the elect, the true and actual situation, concerning Reality... is apart from the "Construct", the material world in time and space. Which same is illustrative of a fall.

The greater reality being, Eternity, apart from the Construct. What Physics today calls "Hyperspacial", or, Infinity".
Which situation we see illustrated in the many NDE accounts, also, sprinkled among the testimonials.

Example:
"Time itself suddenly became infinite and irrelevant. In "earth time" only about ten seconds had gone by until my heart re-started beating, but "I" was also in "zero time" (for lack of a better word), or, actually outside of time."

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/daniel_a_nde.htm