Consciousness/Awareness, Mind, No Mind

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 19 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by lemex

Isn't a persons still within self (mind), simply an expanded mind. The mind is expansive.

Let's continue with that. Is there a "mind" within "expanded mind" within an "even more expanded mind" ....... and does that ever expanding mind ever "sleep" ... as in the Hindu days and nights of Brahman?

You are one person to whom I feel comfortable posing this question?

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

As usual, my teacher took the opportunity to boggle my "mind" even more at a deeper level by pointing out (as I saw for myself) yogis who can control subtler vrittis such as the ones that project their physical forms ... and more.

That sounds like the realm of (greater) Siddhis?

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I use a similar definition: "Knowing without thinking". Zen and other traditions use "Not Knowing" but most people might not understand that.

There's a raft of them but all in the same vein, pointing to something beyond the processing of information. The Western mind tends more towards knowledge and 'things' while the Eastern mind turns away from them.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Yes, I'm pointing at Atman. In the presence of Ahamkara - which is just a whirlpool of vritti - Atman is. In the absence of Ahamkara Atman still is.

The absence of Ahamkara means that you become a zombie, as anyone that's suffered enough emotional trauma will tell you. It's a survival mechanism. And yes, Atman always IS regardless of the 'presence' or 'absence' of vritti but vritti is never actually 'absent'. It's a focus thing. But don't forget that the Atman has no sense of self/'I am' without the Ahamkara.

If one's vritti is a whirlpool then one hasn't got one's unconscious under control, since thoughts arise from the unconscious and it to our awareness. The irony is that the subject of vritti/no vritti can lead to even more vritti.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

That was my original understanding of "absence of vritti" - absence such as in deep and dreamless sleep or deep meditation.

What is the difference between vritti and the question of how thoughts arise?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

That sounds like the realm of (greater) Siddhis?

Yes. I have personally and directly become aware of the realm of (greater) Siddhis...... generally in private (no ostentatious displays).

You are correct.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

There's a raft of them but all in the same vein, pointing to something beyond the processing of information. The Western mind tends more towards knowledge and 'things' while the Eastern mind turns away from them.

Amen!

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

What is the difference between vritti and the question of how thoughts arise?

"Vritti" is often translated as "waves" and thoughts are only one type of "wave". The term "Vritti" is more inclusive.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

So it seems to me that "knowing" always is,

What I'm about to say, does not negate the importance/significance/value of consciousness. Just my perspective.

Consciousness is definitely closer to nondual, or the closest thing that I know of, but the nondual is potentially even beyond consciousness. It is the absoluteness of all the eternally unrealisable infinity of all possible perspectives, that consciousness has, has not, or can have of itself. And thus also will have. In accordance with the nondual nonrelative law of superdeterminism, which is an archetype of existence.
Because it, like consciousness, is infinite and eternal. So eventually it will be known, but that will never be the end of anything, because there will always be more, by the definition of infinity and eternity of all consciousness'.

So even if the consciousness does not "reflect", or better said, "vibrationally(resonantly/dissonantly) expand upon" the knowing of its own infinity, that does not mean that that absolute knowing does not, or ceases to, always exist in its infinite expanse, as an inseperable extension of this eternal consciousness just as this consciousness is an inseperable extension of it.

[lemex]

I think what I saw in expanded mind is of my experience of it, so not only theory but of experience and everyone has had their own experience. In fact experience has always been around and led to describing it, so it must be true. This seems to be evident, I mean this is what teachers talk about and everyone as well.

What I have found experiencing expanding mind is it feels much like a new experience seen by the same mind, the old mind. The mind is changed by experience and seeing. The same mind experiences opposites finding experience within an experience. In fact the expanding mind never sleeps but the mind does shut itself down. But is there a spirit mind? To move requires energy so it is also about energy.

As far as consciousness itself, it is existent. Consciousness being beyond this place but part of it and consciousness is dimensional while the body is not. Body is not dimensional but the anchor. Consciousness here is conditional by body and limits itself. Consciousness is from the perspective of human (known) and not the spirit (unknown) and the question is, is there a spirit mind. If I asked right now we probably say the human mind is what the spirit mind will be not realizing, it would not. There actually being two perspectives we are working through.