friendship problems

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by ragdoll

I have a friend I care about a lot but when she has problems she gets angry at me.

In psychology, there is a concept that says, when we get mad or whatever, we need to direct our anger or other feelings towards the correct target and NOT onto innocent bystanders such as: a friend, spouse, pet, children, co-workers, strangers, etc. We learn to misdirect our feelings in early childhood when we cannot or dare not direct our anger towards the correct target, usually a parent, so we misdirect our anger towards a SAFER and EASIER target, like a friend or other sibling, pet, stuffed doll, school friends, etc. It's an early form of DENIAL which allows us to vent or discharge our angry energy in a safer or easier way even if the anger is dumped onto the WRONG TARGET. I image many of us witnessed our parents coming home from a bad day at work and TAKING THEIR ANGER OUT on someone or something at home.

Either I am not there for her even if I have no clue what is going on and she doesn't talk about it or ask for help, or she blames me for something I didn't do.

You need to see what she is doing and why. She is dumping her negative feelings onto you - the wrong target - instead of the person or thing that truly deserves her anger and then, you will need to establish your boundaries and put a stop to her inappropriate abuse of you. The next time she dumps her anger onto you, you need to say, "Stop it! Go confront the person you're really angry at - but not me!" And MEAN IT!

And today that happened and instead of being defensive and explaining myself I just told her my offer for help still stands and left it at that because I didn't do anything wrong.

That's a good beginning and you may have to defend your boundaries a lot more until she gets it that you won't be her convenient whipping post in place of the thing or person she truly needs to confront - the correct target for her unhappy feelings.

I feel this may be callous but honestly I am tired of standing there bewildered that I may have done something wrong. I don't know if I am bring a bad friend or what.

I believe that you do know but are not sure of your own rights and dignity. Google: self respect and learn how to stand up for your self and also deal with a dishonest, offensive and foolish person like your so-called friend. So long as you are willing to be her safer whipping post, she will never go after the correct target of her vengeful feelings.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Belle

'fraid I've been there, pushed those away who was closest to me. I was depressed. I couldn't help it, I knew I wasn't being fair but I was just so angry the whole time and hurting and I needed to let it out.

Wow this is a perfect description of going after the WRONG TARGET. I wonder if you have ever looked at the Correct Target to let out your feelings onto. Was it one or both of your parents, a sibling, relative, school teacher, friend or what ?

Not saying this is your friend, whether it is a bad patch or what. But - she could be in a really tricky space ?

IMO, the "really tricky space" is that she doesn't have the courage to confront the person or thing that has upset her so she "lets it out" on an easier and safer target - her soft friend.

[Belle]

Hi jimrich, I shared from my experience, and very much in the past tense. As I said, I was depressed - context is important. It's not uncommon to chase away those that are "safe" similar to adolescence in depression. I'm no longer depressed.

In my experience, I had two friends I was getting particularly cross with and they conspired and told me that they didn't think they were helping me and were going to take a step back. it was a brave call. And whilst it hurt me terribly at the time it was the wake up call I needed, although still depressed it helped me see i had a responsibility.

They could have phrased it differently, they could have told me they cared about me and loved me - rather than just terminate the friendship, or they could have divvied up the load to care for me or talked to me about boundaries or something? But we got there in the end.

Problem is with depression is there can be a lot of anger and that has to get out otherwise someone can turn in on themselves.

[Mused]

There is a point where you have to draw boundaries. Some people test them, and take as much as they can. I think you reacted well by not getting defensive. Pay attention to how you feel, what you are comf with etc. A friendship goes both ways, and it shouldnt feel strained. Maybe some distance when she makes unreasonable demands would help.

[ragdoll]

Originally Posted by Somnia

Hi ragdoll...

I am glad to hear you are working on yourself, and how you are steadily working on changing your mind's programming you experienced when you were younger. You are also correct in by changing your own programming it changes your perception of the world, and how you view your relationships with other people begin to change as well...Instead of forming relationships out of attachment and codependency, the relationships you form begin to feel more free-flowing without attachments or conditions...at least this has been my personal experience...

By not participating with your friend's codependency means not playing into their games...You can realize what they are going through is their own path independently from yours, and if the relationship becomes too toxic you have a choice to step away from it, which I believe this is something you feel you want to do deep down when you stated "I walk away from a lot of people who mistreat me..."

No one should force you or guilt trip you into staying in a toxic relationship...If you have been in this relationship with your friend for a very long time with no improvement, sometimes it's best to walk away or at least give them space so they can work out their own issues at their own pace and time that is right for them...You did the right thing in offering your support but ultimately it's up to the person to want to embrace the desire change...

Thanks for that.

Uh today I feel ****** and upset because of all this and I know it's the emotional dumping but I am doing my best not to pass it along. I am looking for codependents anonymous but I may have to start that come summer break.

I appreciate the advice and everything. I had an inkling about codependent for a while but didn't want to face the truth. Sometimes the bubble feels good even when it feels bad.

[ragdoll]

Originally Posted by jimrich

In psychology, there is a concept that says, when we get mad or whatever, we need to direct our anger or other feelings towards the correct target and NOT onto innocent bystanders such as: a friend, spouse, pet, children, co-workers, strangers, etc. We learn to misdirect our feelings in early childhood when we cannot or dare not direct our anger towards the correct target, usually a parent, so we misdirect our anger towards a SAFER and EASIER target, like a friend or other sibling, pet, stuffed doll, school friends, etc. It's an early form of DENIAL which allows us to vent or discharge our angry energy in a safer or easier way even if the anger is dumped onto the WRONG TARGET. I image many of us witnessed our parents coming home from a bad day at work and TAKING THEIR ANGER OUT on someone or something at home.

You need to see what she is doing and why. She is dumping her negative feelings onto you - the wrong target - instead of the person or thing that truly deserves her anger and then, you will need to establish your boundaries and put a stop to her inappropriate abuse of you. The next time she dumps her anger onto you, you need to say, "Stop it! Go confront the person you're really angry at - but not me!" And MEAN IT!


That's a good beginning and you may have to defend your boundaries a lot more until she gets it that you won't be her convenient whipping post in place of the thing or person she truly needs to confront - the correct target for her unhappy feelings.


I believe that you do know but are not sure of your own rights and dignity. Google: self respect and learn how to stand up for your self and also deal with a dishonest, offensive and foolish person like your so-called friend. So long as you are willing to be her safer whipping post, she will never go after the correct target of her vengeful feelings.

Thank you that is good to think of. I was thinking this last night. Where did u learn this from?

[Somnia]

Originally Posted by ragdoll

Thanks for that.

Uh today I feel ****** and upset because of all this and I know it's the emotional dumping but I am doing my best not to pass it along. I am looking for codependents anonymous but I may have to start that come summer break.

I appreciate the advice and everything. I had an inkling about codependent for a while but didn't want to face the truth. Sometimes the bubble feels good even when it feels bad.

Hey...It is okay to have these kinds of feelings right now...Yes, it can be very difficult to face our inner issues we don't like about ourselves...but be kind and patient with yourself...as you work on these inner issues they will begin to slowly dissolve and you will feel so much lighter with yourself...

[Delsol]

Originally Posted by ragdoll

That makes a lot of sense. Tbh neither of us were. We come from households where we were the scapegoats and our parents bullied and shamed us, and more. Emotions were stifled or run rampant, usually anger. I put myself in time out all the time, I get up and leave if I know I'm going to be angry etc. I also got in a lot of trouble for that and would be questioned as to why I was angry and then what er answer I gave was met with the, you have your needs met you have no right to be angry thing.


I walk away from a lot of people who mistreat me. I know I can't change them if this what they Reay want to do. But that leaves me with no friends. And I am ok with that
Save that this gets lonely. I am a loner but I know the world isn't made of jerks. But I've been conditioned to accept the it is normal for people to treat me this way. I've slowly been breaking from this. But I have no guide or mentor or point of reference. I have one teacher who I trust but I'm glad for the separation between us. There are boundaries. And the more time I spend with him the more I stop caring to participate in games like todays.

I am not desperate for people to love me. I think I am desperate to change the programming I recieved as a child that to be treated this way is normal. I think that changes the vibe of perception

Dear Ragdoll - I am sorry I did not notice your reply in the wee hours of this morning - only those that came after. Have read your response just now. If I may say, you seem a very mature young lady to me - introspective, analytical and sensitive. I think it is admirable that you recongnize where you come from and have empathy for your friends and their backgrounds, too. I hope I am not projecting, but just from the two posts - you remind me of myself, younger. Here is what I've learned on my own journey; be sweet, be kind - keep compassion, and recognize your own. Yes, do not play the game but believe - ever fresh, ever new - that there are people like you just waiting to make your aquaintance. Sometimes it takes years! It can be lonely - but deep down, you know the kind of people you want to be around. Imagine them often, hold onto yourself even if you feel misplaced or misunderstood, bide your time and they will come. You already know you do not deserve mistreatment, even if that is the norm. You don't wish to mistreat others either, right? Kind, thoughtful people exist, and you deserve to be in their company. I am not saying it is right to walk away from imperfect people. No one is perfect! But it is quite alright to expect peace and serenity - non abuse. If you feel in your gut someone is raining on your parade, walk on. There WILL be others to share your umrella with. Just food for thought. i am no expert. Bless you dear one!

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by ragdoll

Thank you that is good to think of. I was thinking this last night. Where did u learn this from?

Most of what I currently know came from being in 12 step support groups, emotional therapy and psychology books.

[ragdoll]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Most of what I currently know came from being in 12 step support groups, emotional therapy and psychology books.

What groups? I don't have any addictions or anything (except mint n chip ice cream, lol). My mother has a gambling addiction and could be classified as a narcissistic personality disorder.

I am studying psychology now. I am just beginning though, and haven't gone into abnormal psychology or anything like that yet. I only know of narcissism from the book Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Most of the checklist in that book is my mother, and some of my father.

I am trying to find a good therapist but the ones I found liked to let me vent but didn't provide much therapy.

In other news, the friend hasn't responded. And it made me upset for most of the day. And I sat with it and realized why I was upset and how I was conditioned to become upset like that. But I let myself live through it and did my best not to pass it along. I was getting angry at a mistake I made at work and I focused that anger on my boss but honestly it was my mistake. I had to talk myself out of being upset at her for my mistake. I've been working on this for the past year or so.

I'm thinking I need to take a hiatus from my "friends". Just go no contact for a year. Let myself be truly alone.