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18-12-2020, 10:21 PM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 777
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Hello all.
Pondering on objective analysis:-
Perhaps beyond a certain scale--either enlarging or diminishing-- we are not able to use objective analysis in regard of the study of form, objects?
However, perhaps this does not mean that we cannot bring to bear objective analysis regarding the understanding of process.
So that whilst the "end result" may/can never be fully understood, the processes and interactions contributing to the formation of that "end product" may/ can become fully understood ?
petex
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19-12-2020, 02:51 AM
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Master
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Austin TX USA
Posts: 2,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Hello all.
Is existence--whether personal, planetary, cosmic etc.--without consistent "laws" determining cause and consequence actually possible?--n.b. Using the word "laws" in a general sense as sthg. like "forms of framework"--sorry, cannot explain more clearly, hope understood.
petex
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Yes, though it is pretty much a chaotic jumble with little structure.
__________________
no sugar coating here, I tell it straight as I see it
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14-02-2021, 12:05 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 777
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Hello.
Returning to the OP.
Is there a consistency which we call "Truth"? And if so what happens re our experience of existence when we choose to ignore it, or conduct ourselves in a manner which contradicts such "Truth"?
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22-02-2021, 05:44 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 777
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Hello.
On further reflection a thought comes to mind which suggests that the questions posed in post 23 can be re-presented in a more fundamental form which has no dependency on understandably varying perspectives concerning what constitutes "truth".
I.e. --
A question along the lines of:-
Is reasoning possible without the "consistency" as described in the opening post ?
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22-02-2021, 09:36 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Hello.
On further reflection a thought comes to mind which suggests that the questions posed in post 23 can be re-presented in a more fundamental form which has no dependency on understandably varying perspectives concerning what constitutes "truth".
I.e. --
A question along the lines of:-
Is reasoning possible without the "consistency" as described in the opening post ?
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to answer #23 as far as 'truth' there is also the interesting question of 'how long does any given truth last'? Is there any truth that must last indefinitely or do all truths eventually die just like we do?
IMO as far as reasoning goes I don't think there is any particular need for cause and effect to apply to be able to reason. What is really needed is some relationship between things... cause and effect is just one that we consider highly and think about a lot but we also go far in a variety of other ways, for example by considering spatial relationships instead of causal ones. And I'm sure there are other examples...
only way to make reasoning go away is just make nothing relate to anything else, in any way shape or form, in my book lol! but if you stop and make a relationship that means you aren't relating you've missed the point!
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23-02-2021, 04:56 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 777
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Hello FallingLeaves.
Thanks for joining/continuing exploration.
Trying to clarify:-
A fish cannot(?) exercise its ability to swim without first having a suitable environment within which to do so(?)--though it may wish to do so.
Are reasoning creatures able to exercise their ability to reason if immersed in conditions of random chaos?--though they may wish to do so?
This is the question upon which I ponder.
As to other means of relating-- does post 12 make sense to you? Cheers.
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23-02-2021, 10:19 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,460
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i would maintain that the presence of a reasoning entity within what is otherwise random chaos makes it not totally random chaos... so it would seem it has something to reason about after all.
on #12 interesting thought, have to think about it.
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24-02-2021, 10:41 PM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 777
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Amongst reasoning creatures we can imagine that the need to have some form of narrative which explains the otherwise inexplicable will be great-- not simply because of natural inquisitiveness but also because of discomfort with uncertainty and the otherwise random and apparently haphazard.
Such narratives offer a sense of order and reason--and can be beautiful both in form and as examples of the brilliance of imagination.
Being upheld by such narratives may provide a stable foundation within which further study and enquiry can flourish,--study and enquiry which may ultimately--and perhaps ironically--provide understanding which undermines the validity, and replaces the whole or part of such narratives.
Last edited by weareunity : 25-02-2021 at 04:51 AM.
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26-02-2021, 09:14 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Being upheld by such narratives may provide a stable foundation within which further study and enquiry can flourish,--study and enquiry which may ultimately--and perhaps ironically--provide understanding which undermines the validity, and replaces the whole or part of such narratives.
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such narratives can also be used as a prison in which we confine ourselves... which seems to be one of the big problems we face...
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01-03-2021, 05:01 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 777
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Pondering on-- the difference between a prison and a citadel is largely the difference in the choice of function.--to keep the inside in, or to keep the outside out.
And sometimes the sub-conscious makes choices of which the conscious is not aware?
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