My personal life lesson in coming here

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Baile

That's an interesting comment. But is this about knowing one's destiny? It seems more about making a conscious decision to live life in bliss, rather than give into the belief that life is suffering, or the idea that we need to suffer in order to grow spiritually. I can say from my own experiences that I have in fact grown plenty from my suffering experiences, when they have happened in my life. I do see the truth in that wisdom. But I would never say life is suffering. And I would never embrace suffering as a path to wisdom, that seems way too masochistic.

I think your missing more of what is being said in all this? or maybe I am seeing more than what is being conveyed more directly?

To me it feels like there is a definite detachment from life showing in this as well regardless of what your trying to convey as a worthwhile way of living his life beyond suffering.

If I believed and were convinced that my life would eventually become more valuable and worth living through all this suffering and misery as opposed to living the ideal life I had in mind (the eternal blissful life of no suffering where I can get anything I want), then I would have no issue with being here on this Earth.

But since I am convinced otherwise and am instead convinced that the only greatest life for me will always be that eternal blissful life, then I will always take issue with the idea of being sent here on Earth where there is much suffering as opposed to remaining up in the higher blissful spiritual realms where I can live forever, be forever happy, and get anything I want.

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I have suffered much misery and trauma in my life. The life lesson I have learned is just how important my happiness is. Therefore, it was the happiness itself that was important here; not the life lesson. The life lesson is just a realization (a thought).

But since that realization is that it is my happiness that is of value to me, then it is my happiness that is of value to me and not the life lesson. If what was included in that life lesson was that the life lesson itself was also important to me, then the life lesson itself would also be of value to me.

So if I have come here to suffer in order to learn this life lesson, then it was all pointless. If there are higher blissful spiritual realms, then I should of just remained up there where I wouldn't have to suffer. Furthermore, I could of just simply been informed while up there how important my happiness really is.

Many people would say that we need suffering, tragedy, grief, and illness to give value and growth to our lives. When this statement is applied to me, it makes me angry because it is a statement that insists that I need things that I hate and don't value. I truly need none of those things to give value to my life.

As a matter of fact, these things only take away value from my life. If I were to live an eternal blissful life that has no suffering, no illness, and is a life where I can get everything I want, then this would truly be the greatest life for me.

It would never lose any value to me and for anyone to insist otherwise means that these people don't truly know my spiritual needs and purpose. My personal spiritual need and purpose is not to suffer, learn, and grow, but to just live forever happy with no suffering or illness and get what I want in life.

Different people have different spiritual needs and purposes and the spiritual need and purpose of suffering, learning, and growing does not apply to me. So if I came here to this Earth rather than remaining in the higher blissful spiritual realms, then it was all a big mistake to me.

I think there's no discussion needed or advice need to be given, but I've read your post in this thread and I think you said 'I can get everything I want' couple of times.
You can't get anything you want in this world or in any place in this universe without learn and grow.
Although you have 1 mega ton of gold and 1 mega carat of diamond, you can't buy six pack abs.
Happiness from 'I can get everything I want' is never enough and you will ask for more, and more... and more.

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I think your missing more of what is being said in all this? or maybe I am seeing more than what is being conveyed more directly?

To me it feels like there is a definite detachment from life showing in this as well regardless of what your trying to convey as a worthwhile way of living his life beyond suffering.

If I believed and were convinced that my life would eventually become more valuable and worth living through all this suffering and misery as opposed to living the ideal life I had in mind (the eternal blissful life of no suffering where I can get anything I want), then I would have no issue with being here on this Earth.

But since I am convinced otherwise and am instead convinced that the only greatest life for me will always be that eternal blissful life, then I will always take issue with the idea of being sent here on Earth where there is much suffering as opposed to remaining up in the higher blissful spiritual realms where I can live forever, be forever happy, and get anything I want.

I had a discussion with one other person who believes in higher spiritual realms and in the supernatural. He said that the reason why so many of us hate suffering, illness, unhappiness, and the idea of scientific materialism (the idea of being dead and that's it), this would be because our true nature as spiritual beings is eternal bliss. This state of spiritual existence is our "home" where we belong.

I agree with this and this message resonates profoundly and deeply with me. The idea that I am here to suffer to learn and grow and that said way of suffering will eventually make my life more valuable and worth living is something I do not agree with. I do not agree that this will ever happen to me. So this message does not resonate with me.

If I were convinced that my life would become more valuable and worth living through all this suffering, then I would have no problems being here on this Earth where there is much suffering as opposed to being in the higher blissful spiritual realms of eternal bliss. But I am not convinced. Therefore, I take anger and issue with being here on this Earth.

I also do not need any suffering or anything bad and unwanted to happen to me in order to have a more valuable and meaningful relationship with my family and others. I have lived a life of much misery and this misery has put me into a complete and utter dark spiritual existence where all joy and meaning has been completely stripped out of my life.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by mulyo13

Although you have 1 mega ton of gold and 1 mega carat of diamond, you can't buy six pack abs.
Happiness from 'I can get everything I want' is never enough and you will ask for more, and more... and more.

muylo, while you're correct that you can't have everything in life, I would counter that observation by suggesting that a person can in fact be happy with whatever it is "everything" means to them personally. I can say to myself, "I can have everything!" But that doesn't mean I "want" everything that I can think and dream of. It simply means I can create for myself, that which I decide I need in order to be happy. And I can be happy with that.

If I decide in order to be happy that I'm going to live in a blissful state, and push away all suffering and pain, then that's something I can in fact choose. It doesn't mean I will be successful, not all the time. But it's certainly something a person can try to do if they so choose, if that's what makes them happy.

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by Baile

muylo, while you're correct that you can't have everything in life, I would counter that observation by suggesting that a person can in fact be happy with whatever it is "everything" means to them personally. I can say to myself, "I can have everything!" But that doesn't mean I "want" everything that I can think and dream of. It simply means I can create for myself, that which I decide I need in order to be happy. And I can be happy with that.

We can create for our self, that which we decide we need in order to be happy. For that reason, we need learn and grow, don't we?

Originally Posted by Baile

If I decide in order to be happy that I'm going to live in a blissful state, and push away all suffering and pain, then that's something I can in fact choose. It doesn't mean I will be successful, not all the time. But it's certainly something a person can try to do if they so choose, if that's what makes them happy.

What happen when we not successful and fail? Feel suffering, pain,... etc?

*note: I don't want to change thread starter point of view or debate about his/her disagreement about learn and grow from pain, suffering, tragedy, grief, illness,.. etc. I only want tell him/her that 'I can get everything I want' will end on the same path(pain, suffering, tragedy, grief, illness,.. etc.)

[Baile]

Originally Posted by mulyo13

I only want tell him/her that 'I can get everything I want' will end on the same path(pain, suffering, tragedy, grief, illness,.. etc.)

mulyo, 20 years ago I identified those things I needed and wanted in life in order to be happy. So I set about trying to get them. And it took many years, but I got them. And my life is extremely happy now, I've never been happier.

Why is it you believe that someone who decides to go out in the world, and try and get what they need in order to be happy, will fail? Why do you think they will fail? Why do you think their efforts will result in uncontrolled desire and greed, and wanting more and more and more? Why do you believe their efforts will end in pain, suffering, tragedy, grief, illness?

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by Baile

mulyo, 20 years ago I identified those things I needed and wanted in life in order to be happy. So I set about trying to get them. And it took many years, but I got them. And my life is extremely happy now, I've never been happier.

Congratulation

Originally Posted by Baile

Why is it you believe that someone who decides to go out in the world, and try and get what they need in order to be happy, will fail? Why do you think they will fail? Why do you think their efforts will result in uncontrolled desire and greed, and wanting more and more and more? Why do you believe their efforts will end in pain, suffering, tragedy, grief, illness?

A person try and get what they need in order to be happy without learn and grow will fail.
A true happiness will reached when a person do understand unhappiness and happiness. To understand this, we need learn and grow when we in unhappiness condition and in happiness condition.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by mulyo13

A person try and get what they need in order to be happy without learn and grow will fail.

Oh okay, now I see the point you are making. But did Matt actually say he doesn't intend to learn anything, or that he doesn't need to grow? I will have to go back and read again. I know he said he wishes to live a life of bliss. But does it mean a person will never grow or learn things, while living in bliss? Why can't a person still learn things about themselves and life, even if they are blissfully happy?

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by Baile

But does it mean a person will never grow or learn things, while living in bliss? Why can't a person still learn things about themselves and life, even if they are blissfully happy?

Bliss mean perfect happiness.
For me perfect happiness have the same meaning with highest spiritual or enlightenment. In that condition, we can say that happy or unhappy already not exists anymore because free from any kind of condition. So there's nothing needed to learn anymore.
The hardest is to learn and grow when we in happy condition. Because it's the hardest time to face the 'I'.
When we in unhappy condition, we are forced to face it. If we could change 'force to face it' become 'accept it', we'll win it.

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by Baile

Oh okay, now I see the point you are making. But did Matt actually say he doesn't intend to learn anything, or that he doesn't need to grow? I will have to go back and read again. I know he said he wishes to live a life of bliss. But does it mean a person will never grow or learn things, while living in bliss? Why can't a person still learn things about themselves and life, even if they are blissfully happy?

I am saying that a life of suffering and misery can never result in my life becoming more valuable and worth living. I am saying such a thing will never happen and I am not convinced such a thing will happen. If there is any sort of deity who has sent me here for that purpose, then he/she and me are at odds (enemies).

This deity would have done something completely pointless and unnecessary by having me sent here to suffer in misery when said misery would never result in my life becoming more valuable and would never result in me seeing all that misery as having been valuable to me and as having been worth going through.

This deity would have gone against my own true spiritual purpose that gives value to my life which would be living in eternal bliss with no suffering and getting what I want. My own personal values would have been imposed upon by the personal values of this deity.

Also, read the previous post I just made here as well. It will give you more insight into the answer to your question.