How can we be separate and one at the same time?!

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Carl Jung is absolutely one of my very favorite western psychologists. What an awesome quote !

he certainly had a thing about the Pleroma, which he borrowed from the Gnostics. They also came up with Gnosis or "Knowing without how you know."

The Pleroma is (in Gnosticism) the spiritual universe as the abode of God and of the totality of the divine powers and emanations. And since he's talking about not differentiating he's talking self conscious rather than ego conscious.

But if we could go there? To me, that would be worth every scrap of knowledge in this while sub-forum.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

There is nothing outside of perception.

There is that which creates perception.

As you said,
" Even if it creates it within itself as the only way it hopes to realise it outwardly."

And thus we become Gods.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

With the wave analogy two things come together to make a third.

The Water-wave analogy is that ultimately there's only Water. A wave is just name, form and usage of Water and ultimately there is no wave.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The Water-wave analogy is that ultimately there's only Water. A wave is just name, form and usage of Water and ultimately there is no wave.

Ultimately it can be said that there is no water either -
"The world, indeed, is like a heat haze
Things have no form in themselves."
Tao Te Ching.

Ultimately there is only Brahman, so 'ultimately' isn't water a name, form and usage of Brahman?

Maybe the 'ultimate'/Brahman is that while there is no wave, there is a wave and everything else that creates it. I don't see a conflict there. I also don't see a conflict with taking our scraggy mutt and my camera gear to the shore and seeing if I can flash-freeze the motion of the waves crashing and breaking up. I fancy having an experiment.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Ultimately there is only Brahman, so 'ultimately' isn't water a name, form and usage of Brahman?

It's analogy where Water is Brahman and wave is any object in the universe, from the macro (galaxies) to the micro (fundamental particles) and even subtle matter i.e mind.

Brahman is beyond intellectual comprehension and Maya is indeterminate so analogy is a good way to discuss. Jesus used parables and it's no different. Just an attempt to explain the inexplicable. LOL!

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 274 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Greenslade

he certainly had a thing about the Pleroma, which he borrowed from the Gnostics. They also came up with Gnosis or "Knowing without how you know."
But if we could go there? To me, that would be worth every scrap of knowledge in this while sub-forum.

"Knowing without how you know" is precisely what I call "knowing without thinking" or "not knowing". It required a Herculanean intervention by my spiritual mentor to shake me free of my intellectualism ... and point me to the "knowing without how you know" lifestyle ... which has unerringly guided me far better than my limited little intellectual self.

I agree with you that "knowing without how you know" is indeed "worth every scrap of knowledge in this whole sub-forum".

What makes you think that you can't go there? What is preventing it?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The Advaita twist on this is kinda neat. Even Brahma Loka - the highest Heaven - is but Maya too and its supreme being isn't God (Ishvara, the ultimate manifestation of Brahman) but only a god. A being that has not yet attained Enlightenment and still has some change in its Karmic bank that needs to be burned off. So one who is Enlightened is beyond all the gods of all the heavens.

I used to believe this. Now I suspect that we humans are fairly low down the scale of consciousness. That state which we might call Enlightenment is but a stepping-stone to still greater states beyond the human condition.

I don't think we can judge what these gods in the highest heavens may or may not have attained.

Peace

Originally Posted by iamthat

I used to believe this. Now I suspect that we humans are fairly low down the scale of consciousness. That state which we might call Enlightenment is but a stepping-stone to still greater states beyond the human condition.

If the gods "knew" they were actually Source would they remain in their respective manifestations which are but a reflection of Source? Hmm, good question. Can a Great Soul that has not yet attained Enlightenment but was ever so close during life ascend to a high place in a heaven after death and there complete the seeking? Might be that the pleasures of a heaven are a great disincentive and/or distraction to further seeking.

It suppose it depends on what is meant by Enlightenment and I guess I would use the strictest definition, and in that sense there would be no difference between an Enlightened human and an Enlightened god.

[lostsoul13]

Depends what your talking about: the separation of a whole, the mirrors of the self; the true flame- a secret we guard- not to befriend or become lovers with the self when self gratification can be- unless your celibate to the reason { sex transcends all context of reincarnation and I only participate in spiritual sex with energy?} one of half of the whole parts/part of the self- this is a illusion ( physics states there’s a positive and negative in all atoms- thus including the self on the basis of theory—- proclaiming that wisdom and separation; practising that theory with the self in meditation or beyond the mirrors—-

The truth will set you free:

The separation with everyone else- is a age old tale where the grass was greener—- and separation was/ occurred… from all wisdom one got to know as we like to learn to recognise.. or blatantly recognising???

Reconciling our past wisdoms in that theory…

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Viswa

Hello there.

First you said, God knows secrets and for broader knowing, I seek God.

Now you are saying, I seek God as source or Absolute sense.

In both above, which is the one you truly seek?

Secrets/Broader Knowing? or Only God in absolute sense but no secrets/broader knowing?

Non relative idea or knowing or understanding. Absolute sense or non sense.

Something that is consistently true and is not just an understanding, as in, it can be misunderstood and becomes a secret.

I am seeking the core identity that cannot be misunderstood or change. But it seems that awareness cannot reach it because awareness is relative and vibrational.

So so far, that is why I ask. Does the One experience something? Because it seems like duality is the highest concept that humans can come up with.

And so... Duality is pretty meaningless untill one accepts and surrenders totally to duality and makes the best of it, and all I can do is use duality to seek something that is beyond it or more all comprehensive than it. And if I fail, I dont care. Too bad. Duality wins. And I happen to not care so much about it. It's simply my experience that there is not anything beyond it, except a state of being that does not become and cannot be realised through awareness. Yet somehow awareness arises out of it. And the question is, how? How can I know how, if I cannot even know that which is at the source of awareness? I can say that awareness is the source, but then again, then duality is the only thing that exists and then there is a contradiction, because then existence is equally non existent and existent. Which is a flaw in logic. So existence has to exist, because non existence doesnt exist by definition. And yet we cannot know existence. Thus it seems that existence is not aware. Non sentient. Which makes no sense either. Because we're all sentient. So then awareness is an illusion? I dont know. I try to understand but I just dont know.