Esoteric Whisperings

[zorkchop]

FallingLeaves …

I totally agree. I am *not* a proponent of book learning at all. I don’t know how you drew that assumption. All societies and cultures promote learning from books since so much of their preferred information has been stored in them. Books are a superb way to get the basics of conventional knowledge. The vast majority of people continue to look towards the written / visible word as the valid source to learn much of anything and they turn into data gatherers … for thousands of lifetimes. I have always said that my poss in BEMB and in Whisperings are not for the average student … but for those that are working more towards a real interrelation with LIFE … or Spirit … or Divine Spirit … depending on one’s state of consciousness.

Most people spend lifetime after lifetime “re-discovering” the teachings and philosophies they’ve been following for so very long … finding new phrases that say the same thing they have known forever … considering that “learning” and “growth” … and taking forever to make any real forays into the depth of Life. Yes … I may be a bit harsh here but I don’t mean to be. It’s just the nature of the evolutionary process we all go through.

A new approach to working with Life has to be tested … under the conditions that are meaningful to each individual … and many wait and wait and wait until the new tested approach is safe and seemingly valid and successful before they even try it. They want to *know* before they act. That’s the long way around the block … yet still often preferred. I have always held to inner work … go in and test the possibilities … how would / could it work if it happened *this* way … how would I react and where would it possibly lead … go in and do that inwardly first … get familiar with it all … then when a situation actually comes along … you’ve got a good foundation on what should happen.

Is this foolproof? Good Grief NO … but it cuts way down on the number of options. People eventually enlarge their personal tool belt and that tends to make life a bit easier for them.

Right now … I’m trying to get people more involved in what is going on around them … and to take advantage of opportunity. Since I made that post four or five days ago there have been close to 1000 views … and only a handful of people are interested enough to respond. In this day and age … complacency and lassitude have raised their eager tentacles … and the Negative Forces smile in victory.

It takes effort … action … to walk the path knowingly … and the vast majority of that “act” is inward … inner work. There should always be a striving on how to stretch that … forward … larger. It can be as important as breathing.

I hole this clarifies it a bit for you.

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[lemex]

I agree and would like to expand what I see missing. I think what is missed when talking about "act" is experiencing. Act leads to experience. There are things one has no inkling of seen. Seeing is the way. I have found we have expectation of act which is why we do. It is also about understanding. It becomes clear.

From my own experience prior to act therefore experience is the thought I can control act and even understand act, so act is felt known before doing it. You are doing known you feel. But one learns there is a lot unknown to self. What is done is based on expectations of known but not reality.

But book learning can be used I think. I would not abandon it. For instance every system has book learning (hidden: to use) such as written texts, though dated to be sure. Wouldn't these texts be valid book learning? You know conceptually, even a teacher in a way is no different then book learning. I have tended to find what teachers say tend to be experienced later. Something they had to learn to. No one is born with this stuff. Even reincarnation is about doing act btw.

No one has mention observation experience brings to light. We are suppose to observe imo. Many people justify act.

One must act to know might also include getting to know our attachments to act.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

muffin … good luck with the “tone it down” approach.

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Good afternoon zorkchop

Come on, we have to give a bit of hope

[FallingLeaves]

hi zorkchop,

i also wanted to be clear that my observation about book learning was not directed at you specifically. Personally I think you well beyond that. But you had asked for thoughts about the subject and I knew that a lot of people might need to hear something like that... and since you gave me an opening lol...

one of the other problems is we kinda have a goal to where we wanna go, and we know from those around us who are doing the same thing that to fulfill a goal we have to have a formula so we have an idea of how to progress and how to measure our progress... but in the end life doesn't reduce to a formula so such things work less and less the farther one goes... and then when one can't find themselves making progress according to plan one gets discouraged. Especially since other people will often then dig in with the negativities when you aren't measuring up to plan and that seems undesirable... So a part of it is being adaptable and being able to rework either the plan or the goal as you go along... and another part is being able to deal with rejection...

and you are right, for each of us, this is our very life and we cherish it, ultimately we have to decide for ourselves what to do for ourselves. I find that I can't make others decide to take a chance lol and go away from what is known... it is a personal decision as to how far one is willing to go and when.

anyway I feel like I'm interrupting things but I did want to say one more thing, for me learning how I 'react' to various things I'm doing or what those things might bring to life otherwise isn't the full story. In my view you gotta put a piece of yourself into whatever it is you do decide to do... and that alters it... But doing that, putting yourself out there, can be kinda scary as much rejection is being bandied about...

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by lemex

From my own experience prior to act therefore experience is the thought I can control act and even understand act

eventually you can get to a place of understanding, you might not be able to control what is coming next more than to just give it a nudge. And that becomes sorta ok, although kinda of a hard pill to swallow for me as I'm such a control freak

One must act to know might also include getting to know our attachments to act.

good point, part of activity is learning when to stop certain activities... but like you say you can't learn anything if you aren't observing the results of whatever it is you are doing lol

[zorkchop]

lemex … muffin … FallingLeaves … all three of you are in there swinging away at it and gaining personal, direct experience. No one or nothing can find fault with that.

lemex … you’re right … in the sense that when you “act” … that is an inward or outer action that will have reactions … or consequences … and that leads to better choices next time. By doing such actions … you find out the unknowns … and they begin to become familiar. LIFE always seems to throw in a twist or two but still … all in all … there are patterns and expectations that emerge. Choices … become easier.

muffin … hey … “tone it down” works every once in a while. Always worth asking for it things get … um … tedious.

FallingLeaves … I totally agree that it’s nice to have a “formula” and through direct experience we begin to see just how broad that formula can be. It’s not just necessarily progress … we find out what works. What brings harmony. What bings balance. Not only for ourselves but for others if we choose to assist another in some action. Adaptability … flexibility exactly right. Tweak the action a little bit to see if its more or less effective.

Please do not feel as though you are “interrupting.” The Wanderings thread is designed to branch out and see where people want to take it.

As far as putting a little bit of yourself into the action … that’s part of the learning process. No one else is doing your action … and putting a “little bit more” of yourself into it helps one learn just what is involved with that. How else could you ore anyone learn? Yes … it can be kinda scary … and I would have NO idea how many times I have inwardly told myself … “Hmmm … that didn’t work … “ … and had to do some heavy tweaking the next time to see if it worked better. Since most of this is done quietly … inwardly … no one else has to know you’ve been “rejected.” Announcing actions to others ahead of time often brings about unwanted consequences anyway. “Prophecy” is not a strong facet of LIFE. Flexibility rules.

On we go.

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[muffin]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

lemex … muffin … FallingLeaves … all three of you are in there swinging away at it and gaining personal, direct experience. No one or nothing can find fault with that.

muffin … hey … “tone it down” works every once in a while. Always worth asking for it things get … um … tedious.

On we go.

Me thinks your missing the point

It's all or nothing

Yet...

[zorkchop]

muffin …

In my experience … even LIFE isn’t so rigid as to it having to be all one way or another … a total either-or situation … unless you’re talking about total devotion or total discipline or … whatever.

I personally have … many times … gotten in over my head … been so overwhelmed … that I certainly did ask LIFE to “tone it down” a touch for a short period of time and things eased immediately until I re-grouped.

Maybe you and I are talking / referring to different things … but … if that works for you … all or nothing … way cool.

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[muffin]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

muffin …
I personally have … many times … gotten in over my head … been so overwhelmed … that I certainly did ask LIFE to “tone it down” a touch
for a short period of time and things eased immediately until I re-grouped.

What of a child, without such knowledge

Where does that come from

Have fun and enjoy the rest of your day zorkchop

[FallingLeaves]

hi zorkchop

i was trying to say, no formula for how to act is the same as just living!

In some sense, if you always stick to a formula you become predictable to anyone who learns the formula. If you are predictable to the nth degree what differentiates you from say an advanced AI?

That is kinda the view I think god has of us...

Speaking of god i feel like he was telling me at some point, an important part of the mix is to sometimes chill out, rest, let things settle out on their own. Kinda like, it is silly to expect mud to settle out into clear water if you are always stirring it? Things just don't work that way.

Of course the danger in that is getting too complacent and stopping forever... but that really is the danger in anything related to spirituality, or to things of men in general, you eventually want to rest your head and keep going on autopilot so to speak...

as far as being rejected, those of us who were taught to be paranoid through a long series of lifetimes where people were always being into our business in a very negative way, know what it is like to live with the fear of being 'found out' all day every day... so yeah, while we eventually learn to shut up and just do as a means of asking for less trouble, that doesn't change our memory of what went before or our worry that it will happen again... and while we can avoid rejection itself in large part we are still stuck with the memory of rejection and all the ways we remember it came, and the fear it could be thrown our way again at any time despite our own best efforts to avoid it... and this is a very real reason why many of us want to cling to the known, to the safe, so that we won't be so unsure of how badly we'll be treated in the process of change. Not that I find that a good way to behave mind you, but it is very tempting to go down that road...

all that said, i believe also in trying things, shaking things up a bit, seeing what resonates... although the direction I've chosen to walk in seems a bit unexpected and might not seem very desirable lol... works for me though and that is all that counts
(waves to muffin)