The Watcher

[wolfgaze]

"True personal growth is about transcending the part of you that is not okay and needs protection. This is done by constantly remembering that you are the one inside that notices the voice talking. That is the way out. The one inside who is aware that you are always talking to yourself about yourself is always silent. It is a doorway to the depths of your being. To be aware that you are watching the voice talk is to stand on the threshold of a fantastic inner journey. If used properly, the same mental voice that has been a source of worry, distraction, and general neurosis can become the launching ground for true spiritual awakening. Come to know the one who watches the voice, and you will come to know one of the great mysteries of creation." ~ The Untethered Soul (Michael Singer)

[Deepsoul]

The spiritual source that watches and talks to me is very calm and confident and positive ,but then if I dont offer that up I dont get to know it either....

[Cmt12]

Good stuff from QT Pie in this thread. We can consciously initiate thoughts but ALL thoughts that are negative in nature come from ego. This becomes more clear as you progress in spiritual development.

The Power of Now is a great introduction into this subject. It fails, however, when it's sold as providing solutions to the problems presented.

[loopylucid]

Originally Posted by Cmt12

Good stuff from QT Pie in this thread. We can consciously initiate thoughts but ALL thoughts that are negative in nature come from ego. This becomes more clear as you progress in spiritual development.

The Power of Now is a great introduction into this subject. It fails, however, when it's sold as providing solutions to the problems presented.

That's exactly how I see it, yes it can be a valuable tool to be able to watch thoughts, but I think encompassing the ones some deem as ego, is restrictive and possibly leaving a stagnant state to be in.

I also think giving such emphasis to only particular kinds of thoughts, rather than all thoughts, could possibly take a lot away from the potential of experience.

But still none the less, allowing only thought to watch the thoughts, seems a little contradictory.

I personally feel this will not intergrate or diminish the train of thoughts which maybe deemed as unhelpful to our progress and that essentially, love and compassion for self and others and the active growth and practical assistance that produces this, could be more useful, in over riding ego, (though ive come to dislike that term as an umbrella for defining)

But yeh, ive found and ive still a huge amount of self growth to work towards, that when we start to feel from the heart, where by default compassion and love begin its reign, ego is diminished, I find it difficult to see how it can be any other way, I see this as the way for it to lay dormant, with no need to rise, because where you 'feel' from, the same as with words, its where you speak from, can naturally over ride such things, where it is an effortless process, not an enforced one, a default if you like.

But I do think its a valuable fisrt step, but more so in learning how to respond and not react, how to reflect before a reaction has time to manifest itself. How to see what that means in terms of recognising who I truly am and where I actually feel from.
But that's just the beginning.

Loopy

[Riboflavin]

Originally Posted by Timeless

Maybe you haven't experienced it yet. But REAL enlightenment requires you to get past the conditioned mind. Yeah, there may still remain an "ego" but it will be the most authentic version of yourself. Becoming presence itself. Experiencing the now.

You have to witness your thought patterns and compulsive thoughts. Realize that there are two "yous". One that has been conditioned to think in a certain way, and the other is presence itself. When you are one with the presence, you will no longer deceive yourself. You are a light to yourself. The truth is in your heart.

So I can tell you flat out that this is not ****. In fact, it's the only way to pure enlightenment. How could there be any suffering when you are finally whole with yourself? Instead of constantly battling with yourself.

But, to become one with presence, you must go beyond mind

Well, as I said to QT before, Good luck with that

[QT Pie]

Originally Posted by Riboflavin

Well, as I said to QT before, Good luck with that

Haha, keep that luck for yourself. I do not need it.

Why post on a thread about the watcher if you do not believe mind can be transcended? You add no value to the conversation and you obviously are not in a position to take any value from it.

Are you one of those people that just likes to agitate other people over the internet?

There have been too many lately and I am ready to start accommodating a fight if that's what someone is looking for.

[Miss Hepburn]

Well, since about 10 months ago I know so much more about this 'ego'.
One, I learned how to undo it!!!!
Yes, undo the ego...
It all is in ACIM...after 28 days of doing The Course...365 one sentence
Lessons to contemplate each day...I had a huge Mind Shift, they say 'it happens'...and wowsa...
it is not really all that 'hard' to un-do it!!!!
10 months ago ...I would have thought it was!
But ACIM is not for everyone, certainly.

VERY insightful posts here! Yay!

[wolfgaze]

"There is nothing more important to true growth than realizing that you are not the voice of the mind—you are the one who hears it. If you don’t understand this, you will try to figure out which of the many things the voice says is really you. People go through so many changes in the name of “trying to find myself.” They want to discover which of these voices, which of these aspects of their personality, is who they really are. The answer is simple: none of them." ~ Michael Singer

"Thoughts can stop, and they can also get extremely noisy. Sometimes you have many more thoughts than other times. You may even tell someone, “My mind is driving me crazy. Ever since he said those things to me, I can’t even sleep. My mind just won’t shut up.” Whose mind? Who is noticing these thoughts? Isn’t it you? Don’t you hear your thoughts inside? Aren’t you aware of their existence? In fact, can’t you get rid of them? If you start to have a thought you don’t like, can’t you try to make it go away? People struggle with thoughts all the time. Who is it that is aware of the thoughts, and who is it that struggles with them? Again, you have a subject-object relationship with your thoughts. You are the subject, and thoughts are just another object you can be aware of. You are not your thoughts. You are simply aware of your thoughts." ~ Michael Singer

"It starts to become a serious question: “Who am I? Who is having all these physical, emotional, and mental experiences?” So you contemplate this question a little deeper. This is done by letting go of the experiences and noticing who is left. You will begin to notice who is experiencing the experience. Eventually, you will get to a point within yourself where you realize that you, the experiencer, have a certain quality. And that quality is awareness, consciousness, an intuitive sense of existence. You know that you’re in there. You don’t have to think about it; you just know. You can think about it if you want to, but you will know that you’re thinking about it. You exist regardless, thoughts or no thoughts." ~ Michael Singer

"You realize that you’re not who you thought you were. You’re not even a human being. You just happen to be watching one. You will begin to have deep experiences within your own center of consciousness. These will be deep, intuitive experiences of the true nature of Self. You will find that you are tremendously expansive. When you start to explore consciousness instead of form, you realize that your consciousness only appears to be small and limited because you are focusing on small and limited objects." ~ Michael Singer

[Riboflavin]

Originally Posted by QT Pie

Haha, keep that luck for yourself. I do not need it.

Why post on a thread about the watcher if you do not believe mind can be transcended? You add no value to the conversation and you obviously are not in a position to take any value from it.

Are you one of those people that just likes to agitate other people over the internet?

There have been too many lately and I am ready to start accommodating a fight if that's what someone is looking for.

When you understand what the mind is, where it comes from, it's natural progression, and follow that line of progression in all the things, including spiritual entities it becomes obvious. The common idea about what enlightenment actually is basically a delusion. There's a reason there are no enlightened people.

Just because the mind can't be transcended doesn't mean there's no value to following the spiritual path. It's just that things simply don't work that way. Would you rather I say nothing and let you waste a decade or two figuring that out on your own? There's plenty of other avenues from which to approach spirituality. I practice because I want to experience the origin of existence. Maybe you can find value in experiencing the deepest aspects of the self, to follow the line of "beingness" beyond yourself into infinity. Maybe you will seek something else.. idk..

It's just that I've seen way too many people waste decades of their lives only to find out that the man behind the curtain is just a man. I suppose it's not completely a waste since something IS learned but still.

[Lucyan28]

Hello there, I like the spirit of peace and joy of this being (the watcher).

Perhaps this watcher or higher self do not talk with words and not even with thoughts, but maybe it has its own way to talk, like intuition or a very exquisite kind of abstract ideas, it is like music without notes, kinda paradox.

Yesterday I did a meditation with a candle and a mirror, it was amazing looking into my eyes while being the watcher, the human mind tried to focus on the mirror, while the being was just watching itself, for moments it felt like if my real physical body was nothing but a reflection-hologram from another world. I guess that's the illusion of the matter.

But anyway let's keep the practices and see what crazy stuff happens