Finding your identity, not self-worth.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by jorddy

Since we are young, we are constantly looking around us to grasp a belief system, a belief system that we can base our actions on - our goals in life, and our values - who we prize ourselves to be.


We capture these beliefs from A) Important figures in our life, B) Society, C) Everyone else in our in-group (the group we associate ourselves with)

Isn't your identity created the same way?

... That being said, WE WERE BROUGHT UP AS COPY CATS.. and without conscious awareness of what your belief systems are - YOU ARE STILL A COPYCAT!


Now, many people stop after material.

From the last thread I created yesterday, the major lesson I realized was that I had idolized a friend of mine for the longest time - for no reason at all.. And once I re-took that pedestal I put him on top of, I was able to regain a certain sense of myself that I hadn't before.

- When you idolize someone, you adopt their belief systems. You rationalize their actions the same way they would and you gain the same emotions for the same circumstances.

SO, when you stop idolizing someone, you regain more of your own belief system... Just like how you gain new beliefs the second your realize that your parents are not always right.. Just like when you realize that in-group you've associated with your whole life is not exactly the depiction of who you are.

- This post is about identity... There are different layers of separating your identity.. The makeup of your beliefs compared to that of the world around you..

Please do not mistake this conversation for one about self-worth :)

Self-worth is a precursor.

You must first realize that you are more than a person's perception of you before you can dismember your beliefs from those of the ones around you.

Are you changing your beliefs about others and how does this affect your identity?

[Gem]

Yes, to have an identity is a way of cultural belonging, so learning the language, customs, rituals and symbols places a person somewhere within the social world, while also measuring themselves against it, as 'my mother', 'my friend' etc are other than myself, which makes 'me' simultaneously the unique individual and an entity defined only in contrast to Others, where ultimately, everything is Other Than myself, and I am diametrically defined by all else. 'My' entire identity narrative is either 'I am...' or 'I am not...', and by this techique I establish myself in relation to this world of Others. What we then find is persons other than myself also project a narrative like, 'you are...' and 'you are not...', which, especially during childhood, out of trust in the adult population, is believed and adopted within 'the I narrative', and then in turn, transferred as 'you are/aren't...' to the following generation - along with the traditions, rituals and symbols of cultural heritage.

[naturesflow]

"The whole universe is a projection" -Swami Vivekananda

[jorddy]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Very much so and I do understand this from my own personal awareness of each person closest to me, coming through this letting go process of attachment. When you take this right back, every person locked into this state of identity in you, reflects the earliest source of it's infliction.

So you can work your way through friends and close connections, but ultimately they are modelling the reflection of your earliest (parental/family) reflection.

I worked backwards till I reached the true source in myself in this way.

This what you sharing in reflection is the reason why people are so *tied* to the twin flame pathway. Believing they are the source of their "other half", yet it is the perceived loss of self in this world that is what they are yearning for. Believing there is something in the other in this deep feeling of resonance, that requires to be filled by another. This is often a trick of the mind believing that source is something, yet source is everything, not god or friend or mother alone.

It is you your looking for in all that, complete, when your aware of yourself, and let go to know more fully.

As I am.

I do want to highlight something that is registering in my mind and ask you what you think...

Namely, we can look at someone as an equal (someone whom would be great to share our personality with) and in this sense, they would not be an attachment.

If someone is not an attachment, then their physical representation of their beliefs will be perceived exactly as they are and they will be judged by who we are (since we will not rationalize for their actions as if they are always right - since we are not attached to them).

But say, this person happens to be extremely alike. They give us a chance to judge ourselves (through them) since we can look at their actions (the same actions we would have done) and judge them (without needing us to act that way.. just see them act in that manner).

Or, we can share experiences with someone much different than us (and not be attached) and judge them and slowly adopt some of their belief systems through introspection and conscious choice.

I bring up these two circumstances because these highlight why deep connection - something that is only possible when you are not attached - is important.

When it comes to twin flames, supposedly the two have gone through exactly different journeys throughout their lifetimes and they meet to fill one another's spectrum... So in this mindset, does twin flames make sense?

[jorddy]

Originally Posted by Gem

Yes, to have an identity is a way of cultural belonging, so learning the language, customs, rituals and symbols places a person somewhere within the social world, while also measuring themselves against it, as 'my mother', 'my friend' etc are other than myself, which makes 'me' simultaneously the unique individual and an entity defined only in contrast to Others, where ultimately, everything is Other Than myself, and I am diametrically defined by all else. 'My' entire identity narrative is either 'I am...' or 'I am not...', and by this techique I establish myself in relation to this world of Others. What we then find is persons other than myself also project a narrative like, 'you are...' and 'you are not...', which, especially during childhood, out of trust in the adult population, is believed and adopted within 'the I narrative', and then in turn, transferred as 'you are/aren't...' to the following generation - along with the traditions, rituals and symbols of cultural heritage.

Gem, I believe what you have just brought up is skill sets/abilities.. Alongside commitments.

Commitments being "I am a ______".. Abilities/skill sets being "I am/I am not"

Interestingly, commitments are based on what you wish to accept into your life / what roles you have adopted regardless of your intention... And abilities/skill sets are based on what you have decided to empower yourself with.


Commitments and skill sets are different from beliefs because beliefs are what lead you to act - acting being a physical representation of your belief.

Yes, your commitments and your skill sets do encroach on your identity.. But usually the commitments and skill sets are manifested in physical reality due to the beliefs that one first had.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jorddy

I do want to highlight something that is registering in my mind and ask you what you think...

Namely, we can look at someone as an equal (someone whom would be great to share our personality with) and in this sense, they would not be an attachment.

Great. I love how you look at things so I don't mind. :)
As I see it jorddy, one can only gauge an attachment through the awareness of self aware of itself being attached or attracting to it what it knows itself to be. Does that make sense? Meaning I am aware of my conditioned past and state of being, which allows me to be aware of what I attracted in others in that state and so coming through it to end conditioned state, I then saw that all aspects within the attachment in myself had to move into a new place of "connection" without attachment in place. When we are babies, we either form healthy or unhealthy attachments, so what is moving through the whole child is a whole range of both. The degree of balance in the child determines what he/she attracts later on.

If someone is not an attachment, then their physical representation of their beliefs will be perceived exactly as they are and they will be judged by who we are (since we will not rationalize for their actions as if they are always right - since we are not attached to them).

I look at this as total acceptance. So it could be viewed as not having an "agenda/attachment" at that point of seeing and knowing. Even so interactions offer us regardless an ongoing reflection to see ourselves more clearly within the dynamics of the connection.

But say, this person happens to be extremely alike. They give us a chance to judge ourselves (through them) since we can look at their actions (the same actions we would have done) and judge them (without needing us to act that way.. just see them act in that manner).

Yes this is another way of seeing yourself and another in relationships.

Or, we can share experiences with someone much different than us (and not be attached) and judge them and slowly adopt some of their belief systems through introspection and conscious choice.

Yes. If you think about conditioning as a source that infiltrates us in ways we learn are not healthy, it works both ways. Some aspects of unhealthy can be healthy attachment some can still be moving through unhealthy. The healthy attachment can bring to us a source of resonation that fits the more 'Unified" source of existence. So we are accessing parts that were once unhealthy into a more healthy state of awareness that builds stronger and more unified connections.

I bring up these two circumstances because these highlight why deep connection - something that is only possible when you are not attached - is important.

Healthy deep connection is what we are in us when we are free of unhealthy ones. I build my own in me first to then be myself in the world as I am. So I naturally build healthy deep connections in life in this state. And I do now.

When it comes to twin flames, supposedly the two have gone through exactly different journeys throughout their lifetimes and they meet to fill one another's spectrum... So in this mindset, does twin flames make sense?

We are each pieces of the puzzle of self, so naturally anyone can become the source of our own need. As for twin flames, you will often notice that the unhealthy ones are often distanced and they cannot be together as many share. Something keeps them apart. And in my experience of this pathway, it is that space that one has to learn to let go in, to build deeper connection in self first.

We find ourselves in others until we find ourselves. For me the nature of my knowing who I am now, allows me to build deeper connection with others. But I had to find that in myself first, using reflections of many to support me to open in myself and weed out the unhealthy attachments filling up my need to build healthy ones.

[jorddy]

@ Naturesflow:

Great. I love how you look at things so I don't mind. :)

Hehe thanks, we are certainly having great conversation :)

Meaning I am aware of my conditioned past and state of being, which allows me to be aware of what I attracted in others in that state and so coming through it to end conditioned state, I then saw that all aspects within the attachment in myself had to move into a new place of "connection" without attachment in place. When we are babies, we either form healthy or unhealthy attachments, so what is moving through the whole child is a whole range of both. The degree of balance in the child determines what he/she attracts later on.

I agree with this in two different ways.

We can live attached to people or to inanimate objects.. Either way, when you detach yourself, taking those things off of the pedestal that you put them on, you become much analytical and influential.


As you have done this, how have you begun to judge the friends you want to commit to, which lovers you want to spend time with? .. How have you decided which dynamics suit you? What do you scan for that tells you "ah, okay. This person is definitely synergistic with me" or "this physical commitment is definitely synchronized"?

For me the nature of my knowing who I am now, allows me to build deeper connection with others. But I had to find that in myself first, using reflections of many to support me to open in myself and weed out the unhealthy attachments filling up my need to build healthy ones.

I can see this in 2 different aspects..

1) You can only truly build deep connections with others when you are acting like yourself (when you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable and therefore authentic to your personality).. So when you are like this, you have amazing connections with people because you're just being your awesome self and sharing what you have to offer.. rather than begging for someone else's offerings

2) Have you realized people in your life that you do not connect to at all (after you began to truly connect with yourself and open into the world)? Were there a lot of relationships that you'd try to connect with to realize that they are just living a completely different experience than you and an experience that you just don't resonate with?


A lot of my old friends register in #2 for me. I hung with them and realize in my mind "I could be having 4Xs more fun with the right personality.. This guy doesn't connect to the world in a similar fashion as I do" ... And I also found myself thinking "This guy is quite dirty... His actions have the intent of a negative person.." - Actually leaving some of my old friends in a semi-disgusted mentality.




Off-topic but.. btw, I love your quote! I always tell people that beauty is the result of pain.