Space/Energy

[Arcturus]

i don't go for the big bang, feels wrong to me. i go for an implosive model as opposed to explosive. matter inflows from a higher dimension into this one. it can do this at many points in space.

Originally Posted by necta3

i don't go for the big bang, feels wrong to me. i go for an implosive model as opposed to explosive. matter inflows from a higher dimension into this one. it can do this at many points in space.

Well, nature doesn't always align with what "feels right" for humans. Physics is full of counter-intuitive findings. The big bang is generally accepted due to its explanatory power. Does your "implosive model" provide similar explanatory power with comparable mathematical and experimental rigor?

[Arcturus]

Originally Posted by Kepler

Well, nature doesn't always align with what "feels right" for humans. Physics is full of counter-intuitive findings. The big bang is generally accepted due to its explanatory power. Does your "implosive model" provide similar explanatory power with comparable mathematical and experimental rigor?

hey dude, its what i feel, no speako el mathmatico, otherwise i'd be happy to converse, peace

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Kepler

Interesting thought!


It's worth pointing out that energy (in the context of physics and cosmology) is a physical quantity.

See Dark Energy, it's kinda-sorta almost similar to what I think you may be describing.


Can you go into more detail here? Where is this idea coming from? Especially the 10% figure.

I must agree with you Kepler. In the context of cosmology it is. This is so new to me. I read something about matter that threw me for a loop about my paradigm. I've finally figured out when talking about matter in the universe we're talking about energy.

My original thought was based on what I've always heard it always explained, that not enough matter exist in the universe to account for it, hence I've been looking for missing matter being protons and neutrons, particles. An author put it this way about universe, there's no where near enough matter to account for all the energy in the universe. All this time I've known matter is energy.

Dark matter is new to me to. I've read dark matter isn't made up of (protons, neutrons) particles, that is atoms. I'm coming to grips all matter, everything comes from the life of stars, but dark matter does not. What I'm seeing about dark matter and dark energy is the relativeness it probably was and is needed in forming galaxies.

I think of ordinary matter and forgive me for this bad analogy, ordinary energy compressed into things, rocks, particles, stars. I can point to anything. That's its state. Matter is a state. The sun with all it's energy and activity remains and will remain for billion of years more. Yet we have all these explosions and massive release of energy, the sun remains and doesn't release the potential it can. It as matter remains. If one simply measures the release of energy to that energy which is the object, the expansion and force are an observable factor of million, if not billion, of times greater. In a simple way I'm wondering, saying the Universe is able to hold physical objects in a much smaller area then can hold energy released, hence does affect expansion. Cause and effect.

The thing is, it isn't possible for any state of matter to be annihilated and most of it remains, and only a small portion of energy is part of the conversion. Here I'm thinking of all the elements coming from stars that simply were not destroyed. Matter cannot be thought of as matter, this is what I gather as I continue reading, that both matter and energy is at play, and this may be like the concept more like that of time/space, hence matter/energy.

Originally Posted by lemex

The thing is, it isn't possible for any state of matter to be annihilated and most of it remains, and only a small portion of energy is part of the conversion. Here I'm thinking of all the elements coming from stars that simply were not destroyed.

Right, fusion is something like .01% conversion rate. Except for matter/antimatter collisions, in that case there is 100% conversion to energy. That is the technical meaning of annihilation in physics.

All of the elements do come from stars except for the first 2, hydrogen and helium (also deutirium, heavy hydrogen).

[r6r6]

Hi Lemex/Knower, not to disagree with you space = energy but rather to add to that understanding in a more comprehensive way....or so I hope...

Cosmic Heirarchy

My speculation is, that, what is beyond/meta, our observed physical/energy Universe, is the unobserved, ultra-micro, quasi-physical, COLOR="blue"]gravitational spacetime membrane,[/color] that exists as, a buffer-zone boundary, just before we get to macro-micro infinite, meta-physical, non-occupied space/spacial/spatility.

Cosmic Heirarchy

0) Metaphysical concepts of mind/intellect are concepts of space, and not space/spacial/spatiality ergo metaphysical concepts have no shape/form, rather they are concepts of shape/from/pattern etc...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

00) metaphysical, macro-micro infinite true nothingness aka non-occupied space aka spaciality/spatiality and is beyond the finite physical/energy and quasi-physical/gravity Universe

01) gravitational spacetime buffer-zone of occupied space.

02) finite physical/energy Universe of fermionic matter and bosonic forces of occupied space.

God(es) = all of the above, 0, 00, 01 and 02.

"U"niverse = 00, 01 and 02 above

Universe = 01 and 02 above

universe = local universe as 01, 02 or our more local, human indivdiuals sphere-of-influence or any entity we want to place at the center of a spherical-of-influence.

metaphysical infinity(00 ) embraces the finite quasi-physical/gravity(01),

and the quasi-physical/gravity(01) embraces and contains/coheres, the finite physical/energy Universe,

so metaphysical infinity(00), is shaped/formed from within the infinity, since there is not an outside circumferecne to that macro-micro-infinity ergo metaphysical infinity is shaped/formed from its quasi-inside i.e. by those two, quasi-physical and physical that it embraces but does not operationally contain.


01 and 02 are shaped by operational functions, that are based upon and related too, and derived from, the three, and only three, statically conceptulized--- i.e. non-dynamic --- regular/symmetrical and triangulated, polyhedra of Universe--- tetrahedron, octahedron and icosahedron ---and the cubo-octahedron aka Vector Equlibirum( VE ), as the Euclidean Operating System of Universe.

In the Rybonics entropic "heat death" scenarios, I have laid out the bosons and gravity remain as 5-fold( phi ) orientations of at least two spherical bubbles aka great equatorial-like great circle-like polygonals on each side of the 4-fold VE's( 3D polyhedron ) collapse into 2D triangular set of 4 face-bonded triangles or as the 2D subdivided triangular set, of 5 face-bonded triangles edge-bonded by three triangles.

This following site gives a quasi-intutitive graphic visual of the above explanation, tho the two are not directly related. Two spherical bubbles-- see fermi bubles ----each side of my entropic plane is the gist of the above and this site helps with this basic idea below.


In the heat death scenarios fermionic matter and the bosonic forces are encoded as as triangular quasi-superficially, 2D patterned map, that approaches being only 2D but here again, I believe there is eternal oscillation, between the two sides of the triangular set, even at these near cosmic equilibrious places of least energy are clustered in a much larger subdivided plane of subdivided triangles.


Rybo the Rybot from planet Rybon spreading the Rybonic Seed

[lemex]

Originally Posted by rybo

Hi Lemex/Knower, not to disagree with you space = energy but rather to add to that understanding in a more comprehensive way....or so I hope...

Cosmic Heirarchy

My speculation is, that, what is beyond/meta, our observed physical/energy Universe, is the unobserved, ultra-micro, quasi-physical, COLOR="blue"]gravitational spacetime membrane,[/color] that exists as, a buffer-zone boundary, just before we get to macro-micro infinite, meta-physical, non-occupied space/spacial/spatility.

Cosmic Heirarchy

0) Metaphysical concepts of mind/intellect are concepts of space, and not space/spacial/spatiality ergo metaphysical concepts have no shape/form, rather they are concepts of shape/from/pattern etc...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

00) metaphysical, macro-micro infinite true nothingness aka non-occupied space aka spaciality/spatiality and is beyond the finite physical/energy and quasi-physical/gravity Universe

01) gravitational spacetime buffer-zone of occupied space.

02) finite physical/energy Universe of fermionic matter and bosonic forces of occupied space.

God(es) = all of the above, 0, 00, 01 and 02.

"U"niverse = 00, 01 and 02 above

Universe = 01 and 02 above

universe = local universe as 01, 02 or our more local, human indivdiuals sphere-of-influence or any entity we want to place at the center of a spherical-of-influence.

metaphysical infinity(00 ) embraces the finite quasi-physical/gravity(01),

and the quasi-physical/gravity(01) embraces and contains/coheres, the finite physical/energy Universe,

so metaphysical infinity(00), is shaped/formed from within the infinity, since there is not an outside circumferecne to that macro-micro-infinity ergo metaphysical infinity is shaped/formed from its quasi-inside i.e. by those two, quasi-physical and physical that it embraces but does not operationally contain.


01 and 02 are shaped by operational functions, that are based upon and related too, and derived from, the three, and only three, statically conceptulized--- i.e. non-dynamic --- regular/symmetrical and triangulated, polyhedra of Universe--- tetrahedron, octahedron and icosahedron ---and the cubo-octahedron aka Vector Equlibirum( VE ), as the Euclidean Operating System of Universe.

In the Rybonics entropic "heat death" scenarios, I have laid out the bosons and gravity remain as 5-fold( phi ) orientations of at least two spherical bubbles aka great equatorial-like great circle-like polygonals on each side of the 4-fold VE's( 3D polyhedron ) collapse into 2D triangular set of 4 face-bonded triangles or as the 2D subdivided triangular set, of 5 face-bonded triangles edge-bonded by three triangles.

This following site gives a quasi-intutitive graphic visual of the above explanation, tho the two are not directly related. Two spherical bubbles-- see fermi bubles ----each side of my entropic plane is the gist of the above and this site helps with this basic idea below.


In the heat death scenarios fermionic matter and the bosonic forces are encoded as as triangular quasi-superficially, 2D patterned map, that approaches being only 2D but here again, I believe there is eternal oscillation, between the two sides of the triangular set, even at these near cosmic equilibrious places of least energy are clustered in a much larger subdivided plane of subdivided triangles.


Rybo the Rybot from planet Rybon spreading the Rybonic Seed

I like the idea presented and agree 01/02 is a way to say matter/space, except space may not be only conceptional as you say. It isn't yet clear if we can see it or not and the observation of reality is existent in relation to objects. IOW this is simple evidence. I can't say space is nothing because the mind sees it not the eyes and it isn't clear what the mind is processing. I can reach out and touch it.

It is commonly believed the universe is expanding. This hierarchy you mention isn't to be confused with solid matter and didn't intend to mean one form of it. My understanding is there are (now) 6 states of that which was once thought of in 3 forms. As matter changes in form apparently so does it's properties which you are pointing out. Consider manifestation is being spoken using the word reality nothing more. Manifestation is in the realm of property.

To put it in simpler terms the how of the expansion universe. The universe was once dominated by matter but is now dominated by energy. The universe was much denser but the force needed still pushed the boundaries of space. How much energy is needed to push beyond gravity? This thought was not expressed. Is it really a lot? Take a ball and toss it up and that's more then enough needed to break the gravitational hold until it reaches zero and falls back even in the presence of mass.

The expansion of universe seems to follow physical laws. The idea of coldness which your talking about plays a role which is that which is or it manifests. In manifesting I see this. The universe was more dense. Science says that density is the number of particles within a area. As the universe is less dense this means there are less particles in the same area and greater space between them. This begs the question now in the space vacant but the space is thought to become colder which produces negative pressure pushing outward.

But observable matter seems to follow the same principle as particles is space. All universal matter becomes less dense in kind, itself becomes less dense and not denser. This seems to be universal. My own idea is it takes less force then we think possible especially in the absence of matter even less the tossing a ball up since gravity is constant. Merely thinking outside the box

Maybe only the mind can touch that membrane. Now, I'm old school and you present ideas thought about in just this decade. Do old thoughts hold us hostage to them. I present this only as clarity even if not correct.

[r6r6]

Hi Lemex, I read your whole post, and it appears to me that you do not understand some stuff and so your reply seems vague and rambling to me.

If you sincerely want to disscuss my comments as stated, then I would recommend start at the begining, quote a sentence of paragrpah, and some how give me sense that you have some idea of what I said.

O1 is not "matter" as you suggest below and when I use a slach mark, it is to show that the two words are like synonms of each i.e. they have almost the same meaning but maybe indifferrent context or science ergo 01 and 02 should not be connected by the slash mark as you do.

So it is for that and other reasons that I recommend you follow the format i give above, to sincere attempt to grasp my the ideas put forward as I intended them.

Thx for you consideration of my comments as stated.

Rybo the Rybot

Originally Posted by lemex

I like the idea presented and agree 01/02 is a way to say matter/space, except space may not be only conceptional as you say. It isn't yet clear if we can see it or not and the observation of reality is existent in relation to objects. IOW this is simple evidence. I can't say space is nothing because the mind sees it not the eyes and it isn't clear what the mind is processing. I can reach out and touch it.

It is commonly believed the universe is expanding. This hierarchy you mention isn't to be confused with solid matter and didn't intend to mean one form of it. My understanding is there are (now) 6 states of that which was once thought of in 3 forms. As matter changes in form apparently so does it's properties which you are pointing out. Consider manifestation is being spoken using the word reality nothing more. Manifestation is in the realm of property.

To put it in simpler terms the how of the expansion universe. The universe was once dominated by matter but is now dominated by energy. The universe was much denser but the force needed still pushed the boundaries of space. How much energy is needed to push beyond gravity? This thought was not expressed. Is it really a lot? Take a ball and toss it up and that's more then enough needed to break the gravitational hold until it reaches zero and falls back even in the presence of mass.

The expansion of universe seems to follow physical laws. The idea of coldness which your talking about plays a role which is that which is or it manifests. In manifesting I see this. The universe was more dense. Science says that density is the number of particles within a area. As the universe is less dense this means there are less particles in the same area and greater space between them. This begs the question now in the space vacant but the space is thought to become colder which produces negative pressure pushing outward.

But observable matter seems to follow the same principle as particles is space. All universal matter becomes less dense in kind, itself becomes less dense and not denser. This seems to be universal. My own idea is it takes less force then we think possible especially in the absence of matter even less the tossing a ball up since gravity is constant. Merely thinking outside the box

Maybe only the mind can touch that membrane. Now, I'm old school and you present ideas thought about in just this decade. Do old thoughts hold us hostage to them. I present this only as clarity even if not correct.

[Sammy]

Originally Posted by lemex

I've had a thought about an explanation that contributes to the expansion of Universe. It comes as a result of the post recently about energy and the quality it is held and released. This property seems important as Universe uses everything. For a long time I've seen space as a physical thing. But I'm beginning to think space exhibits property of energy. It's obvious to say energy is different compared to matter. Though matter is energy. But it's it ability to release of energy that I wonder if it's a player in Universe. When matter releases energy there is only a small amount transformed from matter to energy. Even the strongest is 10% of all that's possible for events we can create. There in effect seems to be far more energy compared to matter. If nature is able to release more energy it would obviously expand and have to go somewhere. Maybe space is more a energy field than a physical one. Can a case be made for this thought.

Ive also thought this, which is true. If space exists, then so does a consciousness to percieve it. Even outside of this any distance would require a force on matter to move from each other. Any force requires energy to exist. So you can say that space is the result of its own energy, causing a force which in turn leaves distance of mass.

[Sammy]

To add they have statistics of what we cant see in space.

More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the Universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery. It turns out that roughly 70% of the Universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 25%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the Universe.

As to my previous post, I believe this dark matter is just the "energy" due to the gravity game causing distance.