What I believe full enlightenment is

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Tell me about this bliss you’ve decided is self realisation, gods love is blissful, all is one is blissful. I don’t experience bliss, so I don’t know personally from my experience, but I can sense what feels right in its awareness through those that share their experience. Your first line is indicating your own personal experience yes?

When you realize what you are there is only that.

What you are which is that, is likened to Bliss, Joy, Love, Peace all rolled into one ..

This is what peeps refer to as Self.

The Self that is beyond the mind-body experience, it is regarded to some as our pure essence, the natural state amongst other things

So there is what I refer to as Bliss, which is Love or what you are, or God or Self .. (Way too many words to describe the same thing) ..


When this Bliss/Love becomes you in a mind-body experience, it is just what you are that is in expression of that ..

This is what you 'naturally' are integrated within the mind-body experience ..

Peeps can identify with being intoxicated with God's Love, but it is simply what you are ..

What you are that Is this, and in expression of this does not end the life of a so called other .. it just doesn't happen ..

This has been my realization / experience and the Bliss that I am speaking of lasted perhaps an hour or so, for I know it's not a permanent experience because self awareness eventually returns . self awareness can hold onto degrees of this Self / Bliss but it is difficult to function because self awareness is taking a back seat so to speak, this is why Ramana apparently couldn't dress / eat / wash himself at times of saturation.

I don't think this Bliss is the same Bliss what other's are speaking about for they have this permanent Bliss going on when they are irritated and such likes. This as said, reflects a self that suffers. There is no self that suffers in permanent Bliss .



x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Suffice to say that when one is in the bliss state, they probably wouldn't get irritated by the fly. Their whole attention would be elsewhere...they would be totally lost in Samadhi, so they wouldn't kill the fly anyway - which would have nothing to do with either "wanting" or "not wanting" to.

However, even God gets annoyed with flies...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I-hYq3Y9IoU

This was nominated for an Oscar...believe it or not.

Yes, this describes what I have been speaking about .. they wouldn't be irritated by the fly because there would be no self awareness to be had that reflects upon the fly and what irritation is.

There are as said various degrees of absorption / saturation of Bliss. When the self awareness returns and one is totally functioning within a sense of their own self identity then the Blissful awareness diminishes because you can't be both self aware to such an extent that you are 'ego' functioning and be the Bliss of what you are beyond 'ego' functioning .

There can be however times when an individual loses their self awareness and certain states of bliss awareness can come and go, similar to topping up when meditating like what we have already discussed but one will become self aware again.

So it's never perma-bliss there is Bliss then there isn't. there is Bliss, then there isn't. It's all to do with self awareness.


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Last week, I chose to kill a rattlesnake by cutting off its head using a shovel rather than let it hang out in my friend's backyard which might possibly have resulted in one of her dogs or cats getting bit and dying. This did not indicate that there was "no love of God" present within my current awareness. God, to me, is Life, and Life, to me, is Love and Joy, and maximizing (i.e. optimizing and augmenting) The Flow of Love and Joy (i.e. of Life, or God) is the inner imperative I seek to actualize to the best of my ability and continue to do 'better'.

Swatting a fly which keeps on returning to feed on one's sweat may (though it also, of course, may not) be undertaken/executed in the same spirit.

Gaia will soon shortly rid this planet of billions of people - only the lucky ones that will experience such elimination as as a simple one-time swat - for the same Godly reason! Time to stop thinking/arguing oversimply seeing everything as black-or-white while presuming to be God-Like one.

Lot's of self loving reflections going on for all to see and experience and in that respect there isn't an absence of love.

I would say it would help matters if we look at the differences between self love and God's Love or Self as Love ..

You see Self / God / Love is always present so there is never an absence, but if we mix up God's Love with self love then one can get the wrong impression ..

One can strap a bomb on their backs and say it's God's will to wipe out 100 people, but we have to take into consideration a self / personal reflection.

There is an impersonal Love and a personal Love , equally so, a personal and impersonal Joy, Bliss ..

At times they get mixed up and somehow transferred, this is why you get someone say noone is here.



x daz x

[davidsun]

I resonate with what you have said above, daz. Hence my 'sense' that, for many at least, 'bliss' seeking, finding, and basking in is a 'back to the womb', or 'holding onto mommy's skirts', kind of thing. I am personally more into, and an advocate of, adventuring 'forward' into the possibility/ies of actualizing and enjoying the infinitude of creative possibilites made available in the Love and Joy in relation to and with others 'game', which is what I image-in The Bliss Being Thang got into because just hanging around 'in' Bliss itself was/is lonely/boring.

In 'Christian' cosmological lingo, it is why (the purpose for which) 'The Father' spawned 'The Son'. “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God” (Romans 8:14) blah-de-blah.

Each to his or her own 'taste' in this regard, aye what? If someone was totally into being 'in' Bliss, they would have no 'reason' whatsoever to engage in reading and posting here, I also image-in.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Maybe..just maybe...I may also be one of those "awakened beings" who are still struggling with their humanity.

About that "taking ownership of yourself" thing...who is it that takes ownership of what exactly?

I am having a very interesting talk over in the General Beliefs Forum about how science is trying to nullify spiritual experiences by explaining them all away using neurotransmitters which sort of "cheapens" the whole thing IMHO.

When we talk about ownership, we are talking about responsibility. Are we responsible for the bliss? In my experience, Consciousness is responsible, but Consciousness cannot be studied under the microscope, tested with litmus paper...owned like a Porsche.

When we speak of ownership, what is it that we actually own? To think or believe we are the "owner" just hangs another label on the ego that keeps us attached to it, isn't it? It is for these same reasons why I have problems equating "God" with "Self" instead of with "All".

Some may say "well, the Self IS All" but then why bother with "Self" as being in any comparitive association or relation with anything other than Self?

Anyway..I was bogged down in scientific rationalism, lamenting how all of these people are showing me how God performs all of His "magic tricks" when I am better off NOT knowing because I didn't want to "own" any of it...when Still Waters came along and mentioned my Guru, Dakshinamurthy who is an Avatar of Lord Shiva..

Instantaneously, I went "science? what is science?" and I have spent the past 2 hours in meditation and chanting the names of Lord Shiva.

I just wish that people would flick that switch in me more often...I seem to have a difficult time doing it on my own.

The issue with others too, is that they think WAY too much..they even think about thinking, you know? Why do people kill? Why isn't the bliss permanent? Etc..etc.

How the hell would I know? Sorry daz, I have absolutely no clue..no idea..I could not even hazard a guess...you really got me there...

People try and give answers, but I believe they are pretty much as clueless as I am.

In the end, one just learns to say "screw it" stuff happens...not everything has an answer or a reason...just accept it...forget it...move on...God owns me...I own nothing...and everything is right again with the world".

LOL...here's to the struggle in all its beauty and glory

I would say it's about your intent, your thought, your word, your deed. And all your baggage. Owning that is what we do when we walk our paths consciously. So you're already doing it then Once we own and acknowledge and accept who we are in this moment, all things are possible. Change, healing, growth, all of it, and according to what is right for us at centre, in the truest sense.

Ultimately that is what is in your highest good, equally to all others and to all that is. And also it is what is in the highest good of all others and all that is, equally to you.

I am keeping it really sweet & short, but you get the idea

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by running

my experience among gurus and folks that are in the bliss perhaps has just been different than yours. there was one guru that may have fit the concern y'all are speaking about. not evil. certainly not killing and eating people. i dont think anybody in the bliss, gurus and such have ever done such a thing in recorded histrory.

my experience has brought me to a sorta opposite conclusion. most people don't want anything to do with spirituality because it appears like its about having to be a certain way. nobody or most people don't like being told how to be. or what to do. it causes a lot of friction. such as it does in religion.

bliss can only happen if the heart and crown are open a lot. through oneness.

while i certainly agree bliss is only an aspect. life goes on. the mind and the emotions go on. there is perhaps for some a period of time where the mind and emotions dont function much during the process. as god like explained in his experience. no room for anything else. but that pretty much never lasts for great lengths of time. one eventually fits into that expansion where the mind and emotions can work in all that. in any case i have no idea how one could do horrible things because of being completely overwhelmed with such deep intoxication. maybe drool and stare for periods of time. but not become a evil person. so its concerning to me comparing a crazy human eating killing lunatic having any kinda similarity to somebody awakened to the bliss. that was really messed up imo.

edit add. anyways. although there have been disagreements on this thread. intentions imo have been good for atleast the most part.

Hey there Running...I didn't bring those examples up but, bless your heart, as they say...I'm pretty sure stuff happens all the time, LOL . Misaligned stuff (spanning the spectrum, of course) happens and can happen anytime we are not heart centred, and where our pleasure and our wants take precedence over others. Including after some level of awakening. Where we live in our own bubble and don't yet acknowledge the reality of interbeing on the ground. Where we don't take ownership of our own stuff on the ground. But I do believe you when you say this misalignment is not where you yourself live, of course.

I agree everyone has to come to this realisation on their own, once they begin walking their path consciously and once they begin to take ownership of their stuff.

Peace & blessings
7L

[running]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Running...I didn't bring those examples up but, bless your heart, as they say...I'm pretty sure stuff happens all the time, LOL . Misaligned stuff (spanning the spectrum, of course) happens and can happen anytime we are not heart centred, and where our pleasure and our wants take precedence over others. Including after some level of awakening. Where we live in our own bubble and don't yet acknowledge the reality of interbeing on the ground. Where we don't take ownership of our own stuff on the ground. But I do believe you when you say this misalignment is not where you yourself live, of course.

I agree everyone has to come to this realisation on their own, once they begin walking their path consciously and once they begin to take ownership of their stuff.

Peace & blessings
7L

bliss only happens because of an open heart. if one isn't experiencing it they are still in their own bubble as oneness happens from the crown and heart being open enough. the outcome in experince is bliss.

[sentient]

I really cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would have any objections about somebody experiencing inner bliss.

Why would that be such a ‘red flag’?


The only answer I can come up with is a situation where the child perhaps grew up with a dissociative parent.
One can imagine a 3 year old’s utter panic, fear, distress – trauma suffered if father was perhaps absent a lot of the time and the mother an alcoholic, drug addict or actually had a dissociative disorder.

So then, the question is – who in your life was a dissociative personality?


Otherwise, for what other reason would other’s zoning out, spacing out, going into inner states … shutting down etc. etc. be such a threat to anybody else’s well-being … even to an extent of causing fear/paranoia about evil ….. ?

There is a difference between ‘enlightenment’ (nondual states) and dissociation.....

*

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sentient

I really cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would have any objections about somebody experiencing inner bliss.

Why would that be such a ‘red flag’?


The only answer I can come up with is a situation where the child perhaps grew up with a dissociative parent.
One can imagine a 3 year old’s utter panic, fear, distress – trauma suffered if father was perhaps absent a lot of the time and the mother an alcoholic, drug addict or actually had a dissociative disorder.

So then, the question is – who in your life was a dissociative personality?


Otherwise, for what other reason would other’s zoning out, spacing out, going into inner states … shutting down etc. etc. be such a threat to anybody else’s well-being … even to an extent of causing fear/paranoia about evil ….. ?

There is a difference between ‘enlightenment’ (nondual states) and dissociation.....

*

Who is to be the judge of it, when most psychiatrists and psychologists don't believe in enlightenment or non dual states, but they believe in dissociation and everyone else isn't qualified to give any judgmental bias on it either way.

[running]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Who is to be the judge of it, when most psychiatrists and psychologists don't believe in enlightenment or non dual states, but they believe in dissociation and everyone else isn't qualified to give any judgmental bias on it either way.

psychology is a religion. and most sign up for it because they themselves have problems. used to date a psychologist and she explained why most people get into it. was a harvard grad.