Saving God's / 'our churches' - and getting them busy again.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Basically making a point religion and countries is a cause for division. I think that is just focusing on a possible bad effect of belonging to a group. But lets face it, people will divide themselves over what kind of apple tastes the best.

John Lennon was a socialist so he had a beef with nature itself.

Nature itself differentiates and organisms evolve and they compete over finite resources. Like I said in another thread, ants and termites will wage huge battles, lions will mark their territory, and people build walls and houses. We are also cultural beings so we also differentiate there, and our many environments also create different people's (size, colours etc.), cultures, traditions, customs, diets.

What John Lennon perhaps desires is one environment with one people where everyone is the same. So maybe, I don't know, have one huge desert with just sand, with only genderless people, with no day and night either, just one type of food, one type of job, no hierarchy of any kind. That's what you'll end up with. Wow, what a dull world. Think I'll take the real world. If you do want variety then that means accepting competition and 'unfairness'. It is a simple natural fact and can perhaps, from one perspective, be seen as the 'inconvenience' of the real world.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

All I'm saying is numbers are deceiving.

That reminds me of when I put a 15 minute video up on YouTube and I got 1,000 views. I was excited. I thought "Oh people like my video!" Then I went to the "analytics page" and it said the average person watched my video for 1 minute lol. So most of the 1,000 people that clicked on my video did not like it and could just stand a minute of it.

With ‘Imagine’ John Lennon had a catchy song…..but dreaming of no religion is counterintuitive to the human experience. The literal definition of religion is to reconnect with God……to discover the connection that once existed….and that speaks to discovering one’s divine identity. Almost like denying the reality of God….be careful of what you might recite as a mantra of sorts……

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Altair

That's what you'll end up with.

I think they would still form groups and divisions based on something. Human nature I think. Like you say, it's an animal thing. Humans are like other animals in a lot of ways. We are territorial, fight over land, mates and resources etc. We are more "advanced" and intelligent than other animals so we even fight and divide over what we believe.

I think people may not realize just how "uncivilized" many human beings really are. I think the only reason it "appears" civilized is we invented prisons, a police force, and a system of laws and punishments to "encourage" human beings to act in good ways. They are "encouraged" and if that doesn't work we lock them in prisons. There are about 11.7 million in prisons right now.

I think that's one good effect of religions. Gives people a reason to be good. I think now a lot of people don't accept the idea of "hell" from the bible which basically uses fear of such a place to be good. Internet says only 63% of Catholics believe hell exists today. Here's one of many quotes where Jesus talks about it:

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Jesus was using an idea of hell or an eternal fire (fear) to get people to be good. You will be punished if you don't! I don't believe in an eternal fire but I agree with Jesus in that we will suffer bad effects in some way from hurting or harming others.

It's a basic thing I think. Parents will punish children with time outs or saying "NO" loudly or whatever to make them behave. If you take away consequences for "bad" behaviors, more humans will do them I think. By "bad" I mean selfish really. Like you have something I want so I will just take it against your will.

Jesus told people to not be selfish:

Matthew (KJ) 5:40 "And if any man will sue thee at the law and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also."

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Molearner

With ‘Imagine’ John Lennon had a catchy song…..but dreaming of no religion is counterintuitive to the human experience.

Yes, because it's a big part of the human experience.

[one-light]

Another 200 views in an hour or two, does seem a lot - but I remember checking this out a few years ago, kept clicking on a stagnant thread, and asking my wife keep looking at it every so often, didn't budge - but as MH says some just glance on - and that's fine...

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think they would still form groups and divisions based on something. Human nature I think. Like you say, it's an animal thing.

Also plants and bacteria. It's all living beings doing it... competing, differentiating. To daydream of a world without ''countries'' and ''possessions'' is to deny reality. The lions and the wolves have their own ''countries'', we just call them ''territories''. It's just that our territories are more complex, their existence requires a lot of communication, they have many invisible borders that you can 'see' on nice maps we've made. We call our stuff possessions but you take a dog's dogbed or food away they will not be happy about it. What about the jealousy that pets like parrots can feel?

Even if we were able to get rid of all religion, borders, and private ownership there will be expressions of it in people's daily lives and it will only be a matter of time before they are officially accepted again.

Ironically, it is said imagination comes from the same place as religion. To imagine a world without religion is to use that same place where religion also happens..

[sky]

Originally Posted by Altair

They don't have to talk about it in churches. It's in pop culture and people's imagination.

The Inquisition is not imagination, it's a fact....

Time to cast some more stones for the Inquisition??………

[Miss Hepburn]

Ok, no more on the Inquisition...moving on. Everyone has made their points. Let's not ruin one-light's Thread.