The purpose of 'new age' spirituality?

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I realize what I say really bothers people, because the 'spiritual, not religious' idea is very foundational in New Age.

But since there is so much attack on this forum against religion, I have no problem with saying something about it.

Sorry you don't like it. There's really nothing I can do about that.

"Hate speech is, outside the law, speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of e.g. race, religion, gender, disability, or sexual orientation."

I am legally ordained and most definitely practicing a Religion.

Speaking about one's personal experiences is not Hate Speak.

The idea that some are entitled to do and say whatever they like--because it is a part of their Religious beliefs and that anyone who has a different opinion--then speaks-out about the injustice that they have experienced--is perpetrating intolerant "hate speak"...is an idea that enables injustice and crimes committed in the name of Religion to continue.

Everyone should be free to voice their own--individual--perspective.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by LadyTerra

I am legally ordained and most definitely practicing a Religion.

Speaking about one's personal experiences is not Hate Speak.

The idea that some are entitled to do and say whatever they like--because it is a part of their Religious beliefs and that anyone who has a different opinion--then speaks-out about the injustice that they have experienced--is perpetrating intolerant "hate speak"...is an idea that enables injustice and crimes committed in the name of Religion to continue.

Everyone should be free to voice their own--individual--perspective.

I never said speaking about personal experience was hate speech.

Everyone is free to voice their personal perspective. Lots of people have opinions about other races being inferior, or people that believe differently being inferior, or women being inferior to men. Just because that's someone's opinion doesn't mean it's not prejudice though. Of course they're free to voice their opinion, there is no law against hate speech.

Originally Posted by Maguru

What is the purpose of spirituality? For me it is the process of humanities transformation. However, from my observations it seems to be more about the individual.

Agreed...and so (IMHO) the purpose of Spirituality is as vast and varied as are we.

Diversity--Individualism--FreeThinking--Compassion--Empathy--Understanding--there is room at the table for all of us.

We all have Gifts to offer the whole--once we learn how to come together (as individuals).

I may be digressing, but I wanted to mention something I was thinking about with regard to the discussion about religion. First of all, have any of you seen the movie 'Doubt'? It is somewhat of a study of the concept I've been pondering.

Many years ago I worked for an insurance agent. I thought everything was going very well with this job, but one day he came into my office and said we had to talk. He accused me of deliberately hiding some information from him, but he was mistaken. I had made two attempts to show him the information directly and was waved away both times. Before I could ever get this cleared up, he was there in my office indicating that he now could no longer trust me and that he wanted my resignation or he would fire me.

I am sharing this experience because it illustrates something that I have found to be a common thread within religion. The idea that once one's character is exposed to doubt, there can never be trust again. It assumes that there is some sort of boundary that once breached, there is no return. It also assumes that to live a 'good' life, one must find within their own character a means to assure they never cross those boundaries.
In my humble opinion, this is an exceptionally profound degree of arrogance. It stems from a mindset from times in History where there was a belief in class and status. That there is the possibility of one subset of people who are of a more highly ordered moral and are somehow 'better' for it. I believe that anyone who believes themselves to have achieved the sort of integrity that is presumed in this mindset is someone who is quite deluded. No Human being is immune from experiencing their own trespassing against whatever rules they hold to be 'good'.
Of course there are some basic limits that the majority is capable of maintaining, such as refraining from killing or physically harming another. But in terms of impeccable honesty above reproach such that you can label others as either trustworthy or not is, in my opinion, an impossible achievement.
The movie 'Doubt' explores many levels and considerations of the concept about how doubt is a corrupting influence... and there is some implication that the corruption is applied to both the accuser and the accused.
Anyway, I thought this topic was somewhat relevant to the discussions we've had here about the distinction between religion and spirituality.
I think that this is one more argument to support the idea that religion can be destructive to one's spirit.

[Lilyth Von Gore]

But religion isn't destructive to the soul. Not always.

[Seawolf]

There are usually fundamentalists who are afraid of any questioning or doubt in any religion. But just because some are like that doesn't mean they all are.

The word 'Religion' used to have a positive connotation because it was about spirituality. Now that people are very angry at Christianity, and now also Islam, they use the word religion as a negative connotation. They say religion is just about institution, mind control, never questioning, they aren't like 'me' we're different, they don't experience spirituality, they don't know the 'inner realiity' like we do, they aren't free like we are etc etc.

This is happening because religious intolerance is extremely strong right now in the US and UK. It's like racism was before, nobody thought anything was wrong with it, it was just a given that 'those people' were inferior. It's the same today with religion, and when someone points this out, people get really angry I've noticed lol. The truth is, the differences are really just in our minds, 'those' people are actually very much like us. :-)

if you really wanted to make enemies back before slavery was considered wrong, just tell people that the the slaves and the slaves masters are equal human beings lol.

[Nameless]

For me, I have learned that the world teaches all of us how to "behave", and it is up to us as individuals to break out of that box. There is not right or wrong about any of this. It is just individual preferences. If we could all get to the point of agreeing that everyone's opinion is valid, whether you agree with it or not, I think that is a step in the right direction.

It is up to the individual to question their beliefs, the ones gifted to us by our parents, or religions, our teachers, and decide if we still like those beliefs or it they no longer serve us to believe that.

That, to me, is spirituality. You can be spiritual in a religion, or not. I don't think religion is the problem, it is just a launching off platform for some of us, that we no longer believe what our religion is teaching us. That doesn't make the religion wrong, because there are those that need the religion to cope with their life and make some sense out of it, and to be connected to God.

However we get to God, or All That Is, or our Higher Self, whatever you want to call it, is a good thing.

And sometimes, when we question a religion and we don't believe what they are teaching anymore, it is best to leave rather than try and talk anyone else out of being in that religion, because really that is none of our business.

But judging someone else for having their views is hurtful, it presses buttons, and makes me yet again realize it never matters what anyone else thinks about what I am doing with my life. It gives me strength to know that I can never change anyone else's mind about anything, and I need to give up that need to try to do that, because that is my ego talking.

So I am still learning how to turn my buttons off. I have learned, just now, that I am going to embrace the fact that Seawolf still puts New Age in the same phrase as Guru, because he (or she) like to do that to try to get a response, and it is up to me to decide if I want to care. Caring about someone else's opinion has never done me a bit of good. I keep hitting the same wall, and I think it's time that I deactivate that button.

I must need this for something coming up....any time I deactivate a button, usually the Universe brings it around to me again in my life, a sort of "do over." It's the Universe asking, "are you done with this, or is it still serving you somehow?".

I'm pretty sure I'm done with this. Yeah me!

Thank you Seawolf. I am an old dog learning new tricks.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Nameless

Thank you Seawolf. I am an old dog learning new tricks.

Personally I see people of all religion and spirituality to be spiritual equals, none are superior or inferior to the other. One could be a launching point for another, either way. I respect your right to disagree, that's no problem.

I like New Age, I consider myself to be New Age. There are all kinds of ways of seeing things, and this is mine.

[Touched]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

LOL you're really on a crusade against me. Sorry you don't like my posts. I say that we aren't as different from 'the religious' as we think, and it's apparently struck a nerve. Religious intolerance is a very real issue today in the West. They used to think African Americans were very different than Caucasians as well, but later they learned they weren't. Something you might consider.. up to you!

Seawolf,

My goodness, but you have been a busy little beaver since this morning! I would like to answer every insinuation and implication that you've made about me in all the posts you made today, but who has the time, and the inclination? - besides you, I mean. You seem to have plenty of motivation, and opportunity. I must say though, implying in various posts that I am INTOLERANT, PREJUDICED and HATEFUL, is... MASTERFUL! My apologies Seawolf, I have underestimated you - you are truly a MASTER.

So I guess this post will have to do for now, until I have more free time. And so - there you go, making up stories about me again. You go from "You are on a crusade against me" (feeling singled out? Funny, but you're the one who says repeatedly "I know what I say is unpopular but...") to "I struck a nerve..."...

Seawolf - let me ask you, because you are obviously the MASTER of this whole situation... Just WHERE did I say that religion was 'bad' or 'inferior'?

But let's get to the REAL issue...

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I realize what I say really bothers people, because the 'spiritual, not religious' idea is very foundational in New Age.

But since there is so much attack on this forum against religion, I have no problem with saying something about it.

Sorry you don't like it. There's really nothing I can do about that.

"Hate speech is, outside the law, speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of e.g. race, religion, gender, disability, or sexual orientation."

Here is where you imply that my replies to you are "HATE SPEECH".

WOW. Seawolf, that is really quite an implication! Alright, so let's get to it...

First of all, scroll to the very top of the page and read what it says. Does it say "RELIGIOUS FORUMS" at the top? Just look at it SW, look at it long and hard. Go ahead, deny that it means anything - because we are not at your site telling you that you are hate filled, intolerant and prejudiced, you are here telling US.

NO SW, YOU have come to US to enlighten us about how HATE FILLED, INTOLERANT and PREJUDICED we are because - and this is the crucial part - WE are WRONG.

You know this because....? Tell us SW, under just what authority do you come to us with these JUDGEMENTS? Seriously, I want to know - and I HOPE you have a VERY GOOD answer.

Secondly - and this comes from my first request of you, that you point out just where I said that religion was "bad" - because I believe that two POVs can BOTH be RIGHT.
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ad.php?t=24049

You will find that most of this forum does - but it is apparent that YOU think only YOU are right, and that anyone that disagrees with you is HATE FILLED, INTOLERANT and PREJUDICED, made evident by your ADAMANT position that anyone who disagrees with you is HATE FILLED, INTOLERANT and PREJUDICED, and you are a HERO for setting us RIGHT.

WOW.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

There are usually fundamentalists who are afraid of any questioning or doubt in any religion. But just because some are like that doesn't mean they all are.

The word 'Religion' used to have a positive connotation because it was about spirituality. Now that people are very angry at Christianity, and now also Islam, they use the word religion as a negative connotation. They say religion is just about institution, mind control, never questioning, they aren't like 'me' we're different, they don't experience spirituality, they don't know the 'inner realiity' like we do, they aren't free like we are etc etc.

This is happening because religious intolerance is extremely strong right now in the US and UK. It's like racism was before, nobody thought anything was wrong with it, it was just a given that 'those people' were inferior. It's the same today with religion, and when someone points this out, people get really angry I've noticed lol. The truth is, the differences are really just in our minds, 'those' people are actually very much like us. :-)

if you really wanted to make enemies back before slavery was considered wrong, just tell people that the the slaves and the slaves masters are equal human beings lol.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

There are usually fundamentalists who are afraid of any questioning or doubt in any religion. But just because some are like that doesn't mean they all are.

This is a true statement.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

The word 'Religion' used to have a positive connotation because it was about spirituality. Now that people are very angry at Christianity, and now also Islam, they use the word religion as a negative connotation. They say religion is just about institution, mind control, never questioning, they aren't like 'me' we're different, they don't experience spirituality, they don't know the 'inner realiity' like we do, they aren't free like we are etc etc.

This is a blanket statement.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

But just because some are like that doesn't mean they all are.

This is still a true statement.