Non-duality doesn't exist.

[SapphireBlue]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Non-duality and duality are nothing more than a mental concept/construct. The non-duality and duality mental concept/construct is suppose to help a person combine non-duality with duality together, hence oneness. But people get too overly focused on non-duality and/or duality that such a person does not combine duality with non-duality. Such a person believes or assumes that the physical universe is not real/an illusion, which of course is false.

I'm pretty sure everyone believes the universe is real. It's the belief in separation ie. the inability to recognise the interconnectedness of everything, which is the illusion.

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

It's for us to enjoy life on a continuous basis independently without suffering and with better experience

Please elaborate how suffering is not part of the equation and the soul part of walking without blistered feet.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by SapphireBlue

I'm pretty sure everyone believes the universe is real. It's the belief in separation, ie.,
the inability to recognise the interconnectedness of everything,
which is the illusion.

Haha, I had to read this twice ---you are correct!! the inability to recognize is the illusion.
Excellent!

Trivia factoid - Brits and Aussies spell recognise, USA uses 'ize' in so many different words.
I can tell where they're from just by that! But you said Sydney...
the City that faces the Sunrise.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by SapphireBlue

I'm pretty sure everyone believes the universe is real. It's the belief in separation ie. the inability to recognise the interconnectedness of everything, which is the illusion.

A lot of spiritual people think the universe is an illusion, and think illusion means not real, when in fact illusion means deciet. Peoples false beliefs creates deceitful untrue beliefs about objective truth/reality.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

True , people often are not able to combine duality & non-duality properly which is the essence of it . Physical universe is appears if we are non-dual with it spiritually and it unreal/illusionary / fleeting if we view it materially in dualistic manner.
Though it's a concept (and anything and everything in life is also concept) but it's a powerful concept reflecting the true nature of reality ( switch -on- switch-off kind like twinkling star). Of course its easier said than to practice.

Yes the concept is very powerful for both truth and to confuse.

[running]

trying to understand or experience the non dual from the mind is a fools errand.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by ant

Please elaborate how suffering is not part of the equation and the soul part of walking without blistered feet.

Suffering in the sense people understand will definitely be there. There will not be doubt about it and I agree with you . The only thing is
1. perception of suffering changes (pain reduced)
2. Impact of suffering changes (mitigated )
3. Vision is not lost /blurred
4. suffering does not result in loss of hope
5. suffering does not result in blame game & ill will for others
6. dependence on others for happiness greatly reduces
7. Effectively the suffering is incapable to make impact on the soul of the person for long and it vanishes/mitigates to a point of non-existence.


So my statement is with respect to this long chain of facts in the life of real seeker that does not let suffering make a big impact.

Originally Posted by running

trying to understand or experience the non dual from the mind is a fools errand.

That's the reason for practices. I replied to this post in the other thread and won't repeat it here, but I will say this is why I think the Neo-Advaita approach is not very useful for the average person. It eschews the types of traditional practices developed to ease one into the non-dual experience. I'm not quite sure how that switch can just get flipped on by intellect alone and against all the resistance of the small self that doesn't look too kindly on giving up its concept of I am and I do.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by running

trying to understand or experience the non dual from the mind is a fools errand.

Yes many coming from intellectual background trying to understand God / spirituality / non duality have not been to understand it . This has been the fact for many decades / centuries . In fact many of them may vehemently opposed spirituality .

In view of all these , if the person is using the same wrong methods of trying to prove spirituality with methods of material sciences , he will never succeed and your statement is right.

However understanding all these is no child's play . It definitely requires lot of learning / logic / analysis / synthesis besides faith . Simple faith without intelligence does not take us farther in development . So what we need as what Spinoza calls it intellectual love towards God . And u would appreciate intellect does not come without use of mind . So not all using mind to understand non dual is running a fools errand (especially if intelligent too have large reservoir of faith with them) .

Hopefully this may make sense .

[running]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Yes many coming from intellectual background trying to understand God / spirituality / non duality have not been to understand it . This has been the fact for many decades / centuries . In fact many of them may vehemently opposed spirituality .

In view of all these , if the person is using the same wrong methods of trying to prove spirituality with methods of material sciences , he will never succeed and your statement is right.

However understanding all these is no child's play . It definitely requires lot of learning / logic / analysis / synthesis besides faith . Simple faith without intelligence does not take us farther in development . So what we need as what Spinoza calls it intellectual love towards God . And u would appreciate intellect does not come without use of mind . So not all using mind to understand non dual is running a fools errand (especially if intelligent too have large reservoir of faith with them) .

Hopefully this may make sense .

i see the teacher as bliss and silence through experience of that. the mind has to relax into that. whatever can bring one into that experience should be the practice. perhaps some kinda mental preperation could be of some use. i dont know? but without the actual experience it doesn't matter much anyways.