The 'no God' spirituality.

[markings]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

you honestly think people would go for something if they don't get anything out of it? doesn't seem realistic...

I qualified my statement with "in terms of 'power over'". Of course they gain something in terms of 'power with ..' and especially 'power to ..'

[markings]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

Faith - doubt = dogma

Faith+ doubt = spirutality

Process thinking is not just a faith.

TBH I don't think that many here know about process thinking but are just too afraid to ask. LOL

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

Faith - doubt = dogma

Faith+ doubt = spirutality

That's quite good. But you know, your avatar there, the hermit, knows and travels the middle path, between those two.

No faith and no doubt.

[Nowayout]

Originally Posted by Baile

That's quite good. But you know, your avatar there, the hermit, knows and travels the middle path, between those two.

No faith and no doubt.

No, he has faith in the spirit within. The middle path is illuminated by the ways of the heart. Peace follows and leads the way.

It needs no words or promises to define it and lets it be a light unto his mind.

The mind, the great tree of monkeys.....


Tomorrow will be peace if today is peaceful and all that was will sleep in peace.

I have my days when the middle path gets a very sharp edge.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by markings

I qualified my statement with "in terms of 'power over'". Of course they gain something in terms of 'power with ..' and especially 'power to ..'

yeah I responded too quickly. I caught the qualification after I responded... but then i was like what the heck and just let it ride .

a short excerpt out of 'if' by Rudyard Kipling is what I had in mind when responding. Can't post it on this site though... AFAIK there is a strict policy against cut and paste from the poems of others. But the basic idea is people will not consider themselves bound by your intent. Someone is likely to say to themselves, 'geez, this idea looks like another thing I can use to control week minds' and then go from there.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

No, he has faith in the spirit within.

Again, faith is not required when speaking of experiential wisdom. The hermit travels the experiential wisdom path. S/he KNOWS the spirit within because s/he has experiences it directly. Therefore there is no question nor doubt regarding the truth of the spirit within. That was my point. But we're describing the same middle path traveler, either way, so there you go!

[Baile]

Faith is described in the dictionary as "strong belief."
Belief is not required.
Nor is it a component of higher wisdom and understanding.
The soul experiences, and knows.
And in that knowing, unites in oneness with Spirit.

[Honza]

I require and enjoy both faith and belief. It is unnecessary to live without them. Of course if you don't need faith or belief then fine. But to me they offer much.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Honza

Of course if you don't need faith or belief then fine. But to me they offer much.

Yes, there are many paths and many ways. Church-goers who sing and listen to sermons and share tea afterwards, love the community aspect of the path. For me, I'd rather sit alone listening to waves and seagulls, that's my idea of "heavenly sound."

Even the middle path of the mystic hermit has two distinct roads one chooses to travel. The extroverted hermit seeks metaphysical, spirit-world confirmation. The introverted hermit seeks confirmation in nature and the physical world.

[Nowayout]

Originally Posted by Baile

Again, faith is not required when speaking of experiential wisdom. The hermit travels the experiential wisdom path. S/he KNOWS the spirit within because s/he has experiences it directly. Therefore there is no question nor doubt regarding the truth of the spirit within. That was my point. But we're describing the same middle path traveler, either way, so there you go!

All good points Baile, I concur. I ditched the hermit and went for the tree with her roots. The tree feeds the roots in decay and the roots maintain the tree.

Peace and light within us all as the Earth flourishes.

But you know, I have within me a prayerful soul, I'm grateful for my existence, and my faith rests in higher places and eternal gratitude is a good thing. I have no problem with that power above me as I know "first hand" the way it moves through me.

But as you say, faith is not so much required as this silent awe.

There is the path of devotion, and then the path of internal lights, as long as peace flourishes we are doing Good.