Killing insects

Originally Posted by alamode

You can sacrifice animals for human food and do it in ways that are very loving, compassionate and filled with inner enlightenment.

One cannot kill something one loves

Originally Posted by alamode

Nourishing a growing child with nature's best (animal) nutrient-dense foods is very loving and compassionate. Denying the child of nutrients that are only found exclusively in animal products is harmful and can be deadly (it actually has been deadly...just do some google searches on “vegan baby deaths”)

I just did the google search you recommended. I found six cases of child deaths from a vegan diet. All were fed only a small few types of food. A fully diverse vegan diet contains all the necessary nutrients. This is just anti vegan propaganda.
In contrast to this thirteen million people starved to death last year on a meat eating diet (conservative estimate).

[alamode]

One cannot kill something one loves

So you can't kill something that you love, but most people actually can sacrifice living things that they love so that they can eat these living things in order to live. Its called sacrifice because one should give a prayer of thanks to the beings who gave their lives so that we can be nourished and live well. Realizing that life feeds from other life, all living things eat other living things, is realizing that all living things live in a harmonized loving system of life and death, which is naturally balanced. A system with no deaths will be unbalanced and unnatural so that the beings will create a cancerous system.

A fully diverse vegan diet contains all the necessary nutrients.

I already mentioned 3 key essential nutrients earlier in this thread that are found exclusively in animal products, and none of the 3 were B-12, but that would be a 4th nutrient. Its wishful thinking that a fully diverse vegan diet contains "all the necessary nutrients". I have an example in my family. My ex husband's mom was a vegetarian, near vegan during her pregnancies with my ex husband and his brother. They were the first 2 born. They have a younger sister. Their mom was a vegetarian during the pregnancies for her two sons, and she was omnivore for her last child, the daughter. The two sons have terrible vision problems, since they were small children and always had to wear thick glasses from an early age. The cause is Vitamin A deficiency. That is not beta carotene. Vitamin A is only found in animal sources. Both parents have perfect vision and are in their 60s now with perfect vision and they say no one else in the family has vision problems, grandparents have perfect vision. Its only the 2 sons with the vision problems. The daughter has perfect vision, thanks to the mom's omnivore diet. Me and my ex-husband have one child together and she has perfect vision thanks to my animal nutrient dense diet. There is no such thing as vegan society with a history of thousands of generations on the vegan diet...no such thing ever in history, so if one wants to experiment with vegan diets on children, that is extremely dangerous for the well-being and health of the child, as I've just shared my family story.

Again this is propaganda. Half the facts, not the whole picture.

It is true that the form of Vitamin A to which you refer, Retinol, is not found in a vegetarian diet. It is however manufactured in the body by the reaction of an enzyme with Beta Carotene, which is found in plants. The cause of your family's eye problems may well have been a deficiency in Vitamin A (Retinol), but a full and balanced vegetarian diet would not have caused this.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

Again this is propaganda. Half the facts, not the whole picture.

It is true that the form of Vitamin A to which you refer, Retinol, is not found in a vegetarian diet. It is however manufactured in the body by the reaction of an enzyme with Beta Carotene, which is found in plants. The cause of your family's eye problems may well have been a deficiency in Vitamin A (Retinol), but a full and balanced vegetarian diet would not have caused this.

Good work, Ecthalion!

Not the 'wonders of the meat-based diet' again! What now? Perfect vision?!
Percentage of meat-eating Americans - 90% plus
Percentage of Americans using some form of corrective lens (glasses/contact lenses) - 75% [225 million people]

[alamode]

There are many conditions that interfere with and prevent the conversion of beta carotene in plant foods to vitamin A. Babies and Diabetics absolutely cannot convert beta carotene to Vitamin A. Children make very poor conversions. Low thyroid function and low fat intake also cause the prevention of conversion. Celiac disease too.

The conversion from beta carotene to vitamin a happens in the intestinal tract via bile salts and fat splitting enzymes. When someone eats a no fat or low fat diet, the intestines will receive very little if any bile. The bile is essential in order to make the conversion to vitamin a. Remember that only few people can actually make the conversion in the first place due to all of the above mentioned factors that prevent conversion. Even for the few people who can actually make the conversion, the conversion is very difficult to meet. 6 units of beta carotene are needed in order to make 1 unit of vitamin a.

Vitamin A is found exclusively in animals fats. Only animals who eat a source of vitamin a will have vitamin a within them. Most conventionally raised animals are not fed a source of vitamin a and or carotenes so the animals themselves lack vitamin a. Eating those animals will provide no vitamin a to humans.

Yes, there can be passion in eating meat, insects, vegetables and fruits, etc. I thought that's what somebody means when one says I love BBQ steak! prawns, etc.
There has been period of times I do not feel like eating meat and still find stuffs like blood sausages disgusting.
But in general, I have no problem with eating meat or salads and prefers fruits more than anything anyway.
With all of the health supplements and vitamins available, I think diet is not so much of a big deal anymore.
It is really up to how everybody feels like.

Even pets like canines are getting turned into vegetarians now, too.
http://www.dognutrition.com/vegetari...-for-dogs.html
www.vegetariandogs.com/‎

Originally Posted by alamode

There are many conditions that interfere with and prevent the conversion of beta carotene in plant foods to vitamin A. Babies and Diabetics absolutely cannot convert beta carotene to Vitamin A. Children make very poor conversions. Low thyroid function and low fat intake also cause the prevention of conversion. Celiac disease too.

Babies do not need to convert Beta Carotene to Retinol: it is found in breast milk, which they drink until they are one year old and are capable of this conversion.
Diabetics produce little, but they can eat eggs or milk if they are vegetarians. Both are good sources of Retinol. Vegan diabetics can take vitamin supplements if necessary.
Children are quite capable of making enough Retinol, provided they are given a balanced vegetarian diet, and not fed on Junk food.
Sufferers of Coeliac disease, like diabetics, can eat milk and eggs, or may take supplements.
Low thyroid function is caused by a lack of iodine. Seaweed is the best source of iodine, but yoghurt and bread are also good.

Originally Posted by alamode

The conversion from beta carotene to vitamin a happens in the intestinal tract via bile salts and fat splitting enzymes. When someone eats a no fat or low fat diet, the intestines will receive very little if any bile. The bile is essential in order to make the conversion to vitamin a.

Why would anyone eat a no fat/low fat diet? There are plenty of healthy fats in both vegetarian and vegan diets. It is a myth that vegetarians don't eat enough fat.

Originally Posted by alamode

Remember that only few people can actually make the conversion in the first place due to all of the above mentioned factors that prevent conversion. Even for the few people who can actually make the conversion, the conversion is very difficult to meet. 6 units of beta carotene are needed in order to make 1 unit of vitamin a.

Only a few people???
As I have shown, Diabetics and Coelics are the only ones who may have problems.
Diabetics make up 7% of the UK population and Coeliacs 1%; a total of 8%
This means that 92% of the UK population can make the conversion. Hardly "only a few."

Originally Posted by alamode

Vitamin A is found exclusively in animals fats. Only animals who eat a source of vitamin a will have vitamin a within them. Most conventionally raised animals are not fed a source of vitamin a and or carotenes so the animals themselves lack vitamin a. Eating those animals will provide no vitamin a to humans.

So let's all stop eating animals!

[alamode]

Pancreatic disease also prevents the conversion from beta carotene to vitamin A (retinol).

Very good about your iodine point. Deficiency in iodine could often times be the cause of low thyroid function but I wouldn't say it's the cause for every case. Most people are actually deficient in iodine and the deficiency isn't easy to fix. Bromines are so common in many things and are a significant cause of iodine deficiency so beware of many baked goods like bread that may contain bromines. Fluoride causes low thyroid function too. Most of the municipal water supplies in the U.S. are fluoridated and toothpaste has it too.

So your solution for obtaining Vitamin A would be to do a vegetarian diet instead vegan for children, breastfeeding mothers for their babies and other groups who cant make the conversion.. Yes that can work. Some people can do great on vegetarian diets with eggs and milk (but for some others depending on metabolic composition and blood type they would would be healthier with animal flesh)

Breastmilk won't have any vitamin A in it if the mother is doing a vegan diet. Hence, the terrible vision problems for my ex husband and his brother caused by their mom's near vegan diet. Many women have breastfeeding problems and can't maintain their milk supply.

Why would anyone eat a lowfat diet? Because that is the conventional recommendation and common belief that eating fat causes people to be fat. Also anyone whose had gallbladder removal surgery is told to avoid eating fat.

So if vegetarians want their milk products, they are leaving it up to all the meat eaters to solve the problem of what to do with all those excess unproductive cows, especially male cows because in order to produce milk the female cow has to birth a calf every year. What happens with all those millions of baby cows?

Originally Posted by alamode

So if vegetarians want their milk products, they are leaving it up to all the meat eaters to solve the problem of what to do with all those excess unproductive cows, especially male cows because in order to produce milk the female cow has to birth a calf every year. What happens with all those millions of baby cows?

They grow up and live happy lives. We don't have to kill them just because they are unproductive. Imagine imposing the same rule on humans. It's barbaric. There is no need to kill. That comes when people place more of a value on money than on life.

Anyway, a vegan diet with supplements would be adequate to meet the needs of all, so there would be no need for dairy products.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

They grow up and live happy lives. We don't have to kill them just because they are unproductive. Imagine imposing the same rule on humans. It's barbaric. There is no need to kill. That comes when people place more of a value on money than on life.

Anyway, a vegan diet with supplements would be adequate to meet the needs of all, so there would be no need for dairy products.

Alternatively they could drink plant milks, of which every supermarket these days has several - soya, almond, rice, oat, hazelnut, coconut etc.

More humane and much healthier too. Consumption of diary produce is linked to all manner of illnesses and ailments.