Do you agree with the free will concept?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

One who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction

This I can intuitively understand and get a sense for. It feels to be a stepping away and distancing oneself from the process. An allowing to be, without the need to do and take part in, whether that be via action or thought. Freedom from will. Thank you J_A_S_G.

~

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Baile

Miss Hepburn, what is your position and answer, did he have free will? It seems you're indicating yes because you say he changed his karmic lessons. I can't imagine how that would be possible if we are bound and fettered to our destiny /fate / karma.

Ah, But he changed the way his karmic lesson would be taught...weeks in a hospital.
He learned it peacefully, meditating practicing things he was learning, (it just so happens, by doing ACIM, A Course In Miracles.)

If I am supposed to learn to stop robbing banks - this is my karmic lesson this life, say...
the plan could have been I'd be thrown in jail for 20 years....
BUT, if I learn the lesson profoundly , say , by seeing my brother go to jail.
Well....then that plan of me being in jail doesn't have to happen..that is
what I took away from Gary Renard's story.

Sorry, it did not seem to me he had free will; the movie was full, he was made to be late buying a ticket...I see that others
were manipulating his course.
Tricky stuff.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Baile

This I can intuitively understand and get a sense for. It feels to be a stepping away and distancing oneself from the process. An allowing to be, without the need to do and take part in, whether that be via action or thought. Freedom from will. Thank you J_A_S_G.

~

Which also means there is no labelling, judgement or belief in the many streams that the human creates over what just is. Spirit matters included.

I think I read back in your post 91 where you hold the belief we choose our incarnations, perhaps it’s not so much about choices in spirit but what the whole itself creates and decides as a whole. Creation is an ongoing continuum that can change moment to moment.

As an example, I had a sense around my early forties of a child spirit wanting to be born. My burdens at the time meant I chose not too. It was during a time where I was very open, aware and intersecting spirit matters directly. So in my choice, that ripple sets in motion of the whole, a whole new arrangement.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Here’s a great video by Eckhart Tolle on the concept of free will and karmic retribution ~

https://youtu.be/MEatCKgB6Qc

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Here’s a great video by Eckhart Tolle on the concept of free will and karmic retribution ~

https://youtu.be/MEatCKgB6Qc

That’s a good clear video. :)

[winter light]

Some dimensions of freewill to consider

self - knowing yourself
agency - functional means to exert your will
awareness - contextual awareness of what can be changed by your will
choice - do you know what you want?
morality - regulated expression, do you give yourself permission to exert your agency based on awareness and choice?
mutuality - agreed sharing and giving and receiving between parties
activation - commitment to action "it will be"

My perspective

I follow with others that non-interference is the highest law. It is not a physical law but it is a civil law based on higher service. It is not hard coded but instead involves awareness of the above aspects.

The physical law I view as one of energy where any time you exert your will it creates a wave that echos through the universe and your experience becomes related to it as long as the effects last.

Actually I think that thoughts can do this also and are actually physical but I'll leave that to you to sort out what that means. It is simple in concept but involves multiple dimensions as I started with.

I do not believe as some do that just because we are related to a wave of expression that we are forced to be the sole agents bound to resolve it. I see it more as a sense of responsibility in a fluid shared reality and we can move between simulated and physical expressions as needed or desired, and roles are exchanged flexibly between players in this process. Ongoing living patterns of interactions.

Somewhere I read about a fascinating concept called "unqualified will", used in reference to chaotic energies related to so much distress in people on Earth. I did not really understand it until now.

[Baile]

~

Hello JustBe, I appreciated your reply, not only for the thoughts you shared, including something very personal, but because I enjoy the conversational aspect of examining questions as much as you do it seems.

Originally Posted by JustBe

Which also means there is no labelling, judgement or belief in the many streams that the human creates over what just is. Spirit matters included.

One is one, two is two, green is green and blue is blue. Existential truth in no way interferes with my ability to step away and distance myself from the process of life as it unfolds within me and without me.

There is a conversation currently going on in the forum on labeling. As I said in that dialogue, the answer depends on the macro v. micro perspective from which the observation is happening. If I need to buy "food" -- the label we apply to consumable goods that provide nourishment -- I must go to the store with the "grocery" sign above the door. The store with the "hardware" label won't do.

Originally Posted by JustBe

As an example, I had a sense around my early forties of a child spirit wanting to be born. My burdens at the time meant I chose not too. It was during a time where I was very open, aware and intersecting spirit matters directly. So in my choice, that ripple sets in motion of the whole, a whole new arrangement.

Thank you again JustBe for opening your heart to share this. I had to read it twice as I thought I was projecting my own experience onto your words when I read it the first time. I had the exact same experience. I was 30 at the time when a spirit-soul seemingly appeared in my life, asking to be my son. I spent 2-3 days with this and his name even dropped into my lap at one point.

In the end I decided no, due to the fact that his potential mother and I loved each other about as much I enjoy alcohol, and I quit drinking in the 1980's shortly after getting blackout drunk at the same party I met her at. She enjoyed doing things like butting her cigarette out on my arm to prove a point. Oh it was a booze fest all day long, that relationship! That's why I had to tell baby K, "No son, sorry, but please come find me in 3-4 decades and you can thank me then."

Why did I tell you all that? To share my humanity with you, JustBe, and because I love conversation. And sometimes conversation requires exchanging thoughts and observations that can sound like arguing, which is something I try never to do, especially online. Here's an example: What you shared about your life, and what I just wrote about believing that a spirit-soul wanted to incarnate as my son, is "belief." Is "spiritual labeling."

In truth, suggesting to someone they are labelling and judging, is an act of labeling and judging. This is one of the gods-are-laughing-at-and-with-us ironies -- and very real obstacles and conundrums -- of sharing thoughts on sites like this. Which is why, when I communicate my truth, I also forego pointing out what I perceive to be the flaws in another's perspective and truth. Except in cases like this one where we're discussing just that.

JustBe, please know this not me arguing or attempting to contradict you. You and I are on the same page in fact. I am a "conscious being," and I "believe" that the "correct" path is to forego "labels, beliefs, and judgements." And did you see what I just did there, and why? Thanks for listening, JustBe.

Seriously, this site needs a Namaste emoji, for Now moments like this one.

~

[JustBe]

Thanks for your lengthy and very valid reply Baile. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

In terms of labelling I was merely mentioning in relation to deepening into the self realisation process. When we let go of everything within, inclusive of those things I’ve mentioned, we can get to the core of emptiness where our being and doing move more aligned to what is all around us. What is in us empty( complete) I noticed in my deeper awakening, I utilised my knowledge up to that point, which supported me to get through things in ways that helped me. So I did use labelling of spirit matters in my divisive nature at that stage. I did create my own ideas of spirits, intervention. After the fact as things dissolved, fell away, recreated me, I realised how these things play out in our ‘seperate’ ideas of ‘source’ ...but still they serve the whole in us building our self awareness step by step.

Just so you know I’m not judging your view more curiously making note of my own realisations and understandings, I’m most often coming from an inward reflective place of knowing.

I understand how our human needs require some kind of relationship to life things, through labels as you’ve set down and shown all the same.

Thats interesting you had a similar experience. Thank you for sharing your own personal connection.

In hindsight through typing here, perhaps it was just my own mind creating what I perceived was a child wanting to be born. I was very interactive directly with movements and connections but definitely interpretations are an open topic dependent upon where one resides. I suspect now, I was feeling my own rebirthing at that time, through my heightened connections, which consequently occurred not too far in the future, after that deeper letting go.

I’m not perceiving any arguing at all from you. I get curious and share. I also don’t hold any expectations on others, in my sharing at all.

I understand where and how you’re moving through discussions now.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Baile

An allowing to be, without the need to do and take part in, whether that be via action or thought. Freedom from will.

It's my favorite quote from the Bhagavad Gita and you are correct in that it's all about doership. Ah, here's the clip I was looking for. It's a 5 or 6 minute segment of this talk starting here:

https://youtu.be/n-SUJ0Vwelk?t=1182

[Baile]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Just so you know I’m not judging your view

After I posted what I did, I re-read your reply, and I saw you were simply communicating thoughts and truths in a very general way, as I do. I looked again at what I wrote and thought, I should edit and remove any words of mine that even vaguely suggest I feel I'm being judged by you. I didn't listen to myself, I have to admit.

Thank you JustBe. For that, and for the rest of your openhearted sharing. I really appreciated reading about your deeper awakening process and processing. As for children and being reborn, that's something I went through this past year. I found myself experiencing a reverse-life regression over a period of months, until I returned the womb. Listening to your experience, I'm going to suggest that this is quite probably the journey we are all on, individually and together -- a conscious ascension experience taking place en masse as the vibration of our collective amps up. Thanks JustBe, cheers.