Meditation, some answers

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

There is a story that the Buddha once reportedly said that what he taught is like the leaves in his hand and what he knows is like the leaves in the forest. Buddha was very aware of his intended audience and his teachings (methodology without theology, as I often say) are truly awesome. However, teachings given by masters to their inner circle can go even deeper culminating in one becoming a Light unto One's Self.

I did not realize this.

Thanks.

"As to the foundations or root principles of Dhamma, there are not great deal. The Buddha said that there was a single handful. A sutta in the Samyutta Nikaya makes this clear: Whilst walking through the forest, the Buddha picked up a handful of fallen leaves and asked the monks present whether the greater amount was the leaves in his hand or the leaves in the forest. They all said that the leaves in the forest were much more, so much so, that it was beyond comparison. Try to imagine the scene here, try to see how greater were the leaves in the forest. The Buddha then said that, similarly, those things which he had realised and which he knew, were equal to all the leaves in the forest, but that which it was necessary to know — those things which should be taught and practised — were equal to the number of leaves in his hand.

So from this it can be taken that, compared to the myriad things that are to be found in the world, the root principles to be practised in order to completely extinguish Dukkha amount to a single handful. We must appreciate that this ‘single handful’ is not a huge amount; it’s not something beyond our capabilities to reach and understand."

Buddhadhasa Bhikkhu

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by iamthat

And you mention your teacher Mataji. As in Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi?
Peace

I remember it is a lady, an Indian guru guide.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 1014 EXCERPT:do what you think works best for you.

That spiritual truism is misguided because when people avoid what they don't want and get what they want, they say 'it works'.

If there is pain in your legs, and your hands feel good, you could put all of your attention in your hands and avoid putting attention in your legs, but there is aversion to the pain in legs and craving for a better feeling such as that in your hands. It works to avoid discomfort and get pleasure, but does not the address the aversion/craving issue and will never bring about happiness.

You also wrote "It's not so much what you do, but what you cease to do". I agree completely but the UNDOING is easier said than done

It's very hard because when discomfort or some other sort of intense experience arises, we become compelled by reactivity

... and ceasing habitual tendencies/identifications may require doing something. UNDOING in some ways is a form of doing ... at least initially.

It's done by observation. For example, feeling your breathing. Not control the breath, count breaths, visualise prana, imagine deities, mantra etc. Just be aware of what already is.

It sounds easy when I say it like that, but you'll find there's distraction as you wander off with the mind, and have all sorts of activities/reactivities going on that you didn't intend. Once you notice this tendency, you don't like it and fall a bit deeper into the reaction cycle, and when the discomfort starts, even a small itch is enough, the mind starts going nuts! The teacher therefore has a (misguided) solution. Start doing. Counting your breath and time your breathing etc etc etc... and of course this gives you relief from facing the real day to day inanity of your mind... Ego is pleased by this because it lives off the volition you just started feeding it, so it settles down.

"Avidya (ignorance), asmita (over-identifying with your ego), raga (desire, or attachment to pleasure), dvesha (avoidance), and abhinivesha (attachment and fear)."

Yes there is a basic level of ignorance and delusion from which such things as desire, aversion, attachment, fear are all born. I personally don't differentiate ego from all the reactive tendencies, and "Me, my, mine, I" are the central subject of all such tendencies.

The method, therefore, is don't act and react. Just observe. Be the neutral about everything changing.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Legrand

You did get the analogy Gem, but looking from the outside. The realized sailor won't be stressed by the high winds and storm on the sea even if the boat overturns. His actions needed in the storm will be clear and precise to navigate the boat as best as possible for there is no fear anymore behind his actions.

In the analogy, the boat is the mind or you are the boat, so the storms can be severe, but the boat can't be overturned. Really my point is nothing more than that.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

The method, therefore, is don't act and react. Just observe. Be the neutral about everything changing.

The Buddha taught that there are two forms of 'Neutral' feelings, some wholesome and others unwholesome.... rather than being neutral about everything choose the wholesome

[sky]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

We must appreciate that this ‘single handful’ is not a huge amount; it’s not something beyond our capabilities to reach and understand."

Buddhadhasa Bhikkhu

Thank you PD for the reminder, sometimes we miss the leaves looking at the forest

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Gem

That spiritual truism is misguided because when people avoid what they don't want and get what they want, they say 'it works'.

If there is pain in your legs, and your hands feel good, you could put all of your attention in your hands and avoid putting attention in your legs, but there is aversion to the pain in legs and craving for a better feeling such as that in your hands. It works to avoid discomfort and get pleasure, but does not the address the aversion/craving issue and will never bring about happiness.

There are many forms of meditation: not just one.

When I meditate, pain seizes. Hunger seizes. The problems in the World and the problems around me are 'no more'.

That is one of the reasons why I meditate.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 1031 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by pixiedust

So from this it can be taken that, compared to the myriad things that are to be found in the world, the root principles to be practised in order to completely extinguish Dukkha amount to a single handful.

Thank you for quoting the entire statement of the Buddha to which I was referring. Of course you are correct on the "single handful" point.

When approached by a Jewish group regarding "enlightenment" guidance, the Hindu Sage Ramana Maharshi stated that all of Vedanta could be summarized in two passages from the Jewish Bible (a "single handful" to use your words):

1. Be still and KNOW that I AM God. (Psalms 46:10)

2. I am that I AM. (Exodus)

When Rabbi Hillel was asked to state the essential teaching of the Torah while standing on one foot (in other words, be brief), he responded:
“That which is hateful unto you, do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole of the Torah; the rest is commentary."

Once again, a "single handful" should suffice.

I could easily give other examples in a similar vein.

I therefore agree completely with you that a "single handful" is sufficient ... though... the implementation might be challenging (but not impossible) for most without the guidance of a teacher.

[snowyowl]

On the subject of of summarising my practice here's a couple more Bible quotes:

Love your neighbour as yourself. (Leviticus 19.18) Fairly self-explanatory.

The Lord is God; there is no other besides him. (Deuteronomy 4.35). Not only a statement of monotheism, also pantheism: everything is God. Meditation is God. Getting stressed and flustered is God lol.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

There are many forms of meditation: not just one.

I claim there is just one, but there are different ways of going about it. Most methods out there, although useful and beneficial, I wouldn't call meditation.

When I meditate, pain seizes. Hunger seizes. The problems in the World and the problems around me are 'no more'.

I think it's probably because for me there isn't really any separation between the meditation session and the rest of my life, when people say it's pain free, it sounds to me the same as saying life is pain free

That is one of the reasons why I meditate.

In my case, the experience includes pain, difficulty and pleasure and ease, and I know this is true for everyone. It's probably just that people segregate meditation into a small part of their life, and wouldn't practice when uncomfortable, and probably can't maintain stillness when things get a bit rough. Indeed, I have never seen or heard of anyone who undergoes the purification that doesn't find themselves at the end of their tether, so I'm very amazed that there a good half dozen or so in the small group on this thread who are not like that, but I think we're talking about different things, and I suppose if I called meditation the experiences in sessions which are deep and calm I'd make the same claim, but for me, meditation is balance of mind pertaining to every and all experiences.