Emptiness

[sky]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Consciousness is locked into a human body while the body is alive so it makes sense we will always experience what the bodies five senses present as reality. Mind is a different thing though. It kind of depends on what one defines the mind to be or how the "mind" is conceptualized.

What is "mind" to you?

I would say, memory, conditioning, thought, unconscious processes and desires and habits, ...that's all parts of the bodies "mind." Then consciousness itself I believe has a source outside the body. It is merged with the body, but it is not a product of the body or brain. It was not created by the body or brought into existence by the body. it does not end or cease to be when the body does.

as per usual

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Serrao

Is the realization of emptiness something that eventually happens naturally to everyone, or is it something that takes great effort to achieve?

I couldn't honestly tell you, it's something I realised in my own experience, quite out of the blue, and then I lost the sense of it. So I couldn't tell you if it requires great effort... I believe it requires absolute surrender, which is how I came to the realisation in the first place, but I'm still not entirely sure what exactly that entails.

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by A human Being

I couldn't honestly tell you, it's something I realized in my own experience, quite out of the blue, and then I lost the sense of it. So I couldn't tell you if it requires great effort... I believe it requires absolute surrender, which is how I came to the realization in the first place, but I'm still not entirely sure what exactly that entails.

Surrender is a good word to use.

Matthew 10:39 (ASV) He that findeth his life shall lose it; and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

[naturesflow]

"To be ready to step off the wheel of becoming is as important as realizing who and what you are. You will be happy and liberated, but your game will be gone. For some period of time, you may not know how to talk to people or what to do, and your life may become unfamiliar. This is a very mysterious way to be. My teacher used to say that when you really realize what you are, you're like a baby Buddha. You don't just pop out of the womb knowing what to be when you've been so busy being someone else. It's like taking your first wobbly steps. But you have to be willing to be wobbly and have some insecurity, because if you're not willing to be insecure, you're going to go right back to the old forms of self-protection and seeking. It is very strange to be a lover of what is. It is familiar to be a lover of some things and not other things. But when you have this new experience of loving just what is, it is also strangely familiar. It's like a sense of knowing that it has always been this way. It seems very ancient, yet also just born."

~ Adyashanti

Emptiness Dancing

[Gem]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Consciousness is locked into a human body while the body is alive so it makes sense we will always experience what the bodies five senses present as reality. Mind is a different thing though. It kind of depends on what one defines the mind to be or how the "mind" is conceptualized.

True, and we in the West we probably don't realise that Descartes' mind/body duality went on to become the way in which a human being is conceptualised. Our medical and psychiatric paradigms stem from this and our way of defining individuals as 'autonomous beings' with agency thus responsibility, and even obligations, arise from Descartes claim that the body is an object under the control of an autonomous subject, itself separate from the body and posessed of a mind. Our whole body politic, notions of 'freedom' and cultural ideals can be rooted in this conception of 'a person'. Descartes, however, also stated that he has no rational basis for this idea, but people went with it anyway, and now it's practically just taken-to-be-true.

What is "mind" to you?

I would say, memory, conditioning, thought, unconscious processes and desires and habits, ...that's all parts of the bodies "mind." Then consciousness itself I believe has a source outside the body. It is merged with the body, but it is not a product of the body or brain. It was not created by the body or brought into existence by the body. it does not end or cease to be when the body does.

As Descartes went to question his own existence, being doubtful that a subject did exist, he framed the 'mind' basically as all that is not a body. Everything of thought and perception. I'd add concentration and attention to that, personally. His final say, which I think is misinterpreted by most, is deeper than famously supposed, because he said something like, "that I am, I exist, is necessarily true each time is conceived by me in my mind" (translations from the original French vary).

I like this reading from his 2nd Meditation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE8dL1SweCw

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Serrao

The ego, to me, is that part of the individual that experiences the moment through the senses and the mind.

I was looking into childhood development, and came across an author who explained that language development in the West begins with the names of things, like dog, cat, cup and other nouns. In his studies in China he found that first words were mostly verbs, like walk, run, eat and so on. I reflected on this in the ways 'ego' is conceptualised in the West as a noun, like, my ego, the ego, and so on. In Buddhist conceptions the ego is mostly conceptualised as a verb, a doing, and not as an object to be identified. The meditation, Vipassana, which I studied in some depth in a traditional ashram setting, examines how physical sensations relate to psychological reactivity that creates suffering, i.e. the cravings for pleasures and aversions toward discomfort, and not discomforts and pleasures themselves, are the at the root of suffering. The discourse referring to ego wasn't framed as the ego is something that craves and hates, but is itself the activity of craving and aversion, and thus, ego was framed as a verb, a behaviour, and not a noun, a thing separate, which behaves.

[Joe Mc]

Ding Dong ! Ding Dong ! I've got a little bit of news of you ! There is no such thing as emptiness. The only emptiness there is, is when the Bin man comes and empties your trash can. Hope that answers your question or contributes to your noble non-sense. :)

[sky]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Ding Dong ! Ding Dong ! I've got a little bit of news of you ! There is no such thing as emptiness. The only emptiness there is, is when the Bin man comes and empties your trash can. Hope that answers your question or contributes to your noble non-sense. :)

Emptiness does not mean ' no-thing ' Joe When your trash can is emptied it still contains air, Ding Dong

[Joe Mc]

Hmmmm interesting Sky ok im going to Galway today to take in some sea air and sunshine etc....hopefully i will peculate an answer to this terrible quandry that perplexes so ...watch this space...ding dong ...and dont think your getting away with that trash can answer ..because i will definitely be back Dashes out of door !!!!

[sky]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Hmmmm interesting Sky ok im going to Galway today to take in some sea air and sunshine etc....hopefully i will peculate an answer to this terrible quandry that perplexes so ...watch this space...ding dong ...and dont think your getting away with that trash can answer ..because i will definitely be back Dashes out of door !!!!

'Green with envy ' would love to be in Galway, have a lovely time, wish I was there