🤓YAHWEH & ELOHIM🤓

[DavidHenson]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

EXTRACT
If you look at the very beginning of Genesis, Yahweh is not even mentioned in the first creation account, only Elohim is.
It is only during the second creation account that Yahweh is introduced.

You keep saying that. It doesn't make any sense. Only Elohim is mentioned? Elohim is a word meaning God. Jehovah is an Elohim. Or Yahweh if you prefer.

Let's say you took one of my posts here and you noticed that Jehovah wasn't mentioned in the post. God was mentioned but not Jehovah. So you determined that post was made by someone else. Then you conclude that that someone else must only worship God. Not Jehovah.

Then in this other post I make I mention Jehovah. That post must be me and so that must mean the real me must only worship Jehovah. Not God.

But then after a while you notice that some posts written by me mention God and Jehovah . . . hhmmmm . . . interesting. Fascinating! This must be an incredible discovery! It could only mean one thing. A third author. Or group of authors. We'll call the first author G for God. Author G. And the second poster we'll call J for Jehovah. And the third one we'll call P for poster.

Does that make sense to you? That's all you're doing.

BUT! Look what you could do with that!

[DavidHenson]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

EXTRACT
Thanks for mentioning this?

I suspect, that the Pentateuch was written after the Jews were exposed to Babylonian beliefs which was when they were exiled to Babylon.

So, for thousands of years they thought the Messiah was coming only after the Messiah had long been? So for thousands of years they thought Moses had written the Pentateuch only to discover in exile in Babylon that they themselves hadn't yet written it and had to hurry up and write it then?

They hadn't been exposed to Babylonian beliefs until then?

So, just so I understand this clearly. What can we deduce from these incredible findings?

Could you give me a numbered list?

[sky]

When the name's been forgotten the ' Nameless ' One remains....

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

"How do we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?" ( Psalm 137 or Boney M)

It seems to me a question we all must ask. Some simply say:- "Give me that old time religion, it was good enough for David and it's good enough for me."

Others, like Dogen in 13th century Japan, sought his own time and place.

Do we try to change the land or ourselves or what?

Each to their own.

[astralwanderer]

Originally Posted by sky123

When the name's been forgotten the ' Nameless ' One remains....

This has been my thought for this whole conversation.

The names we give in our limited languages are an attempt to limit the Limitless.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by DavidHenson

EXCERPT

Let's say you took one of my posts here and you noticed that Jehovah wasn't mentioned in the post. God was mentioned but not Jehovah. So you determined that post was made by someone else.

I think by now, most people can tell which posts you write by their content and not by looking at the author. The same probably can be said of me.

Now if we both wrote on the same subjects and then somebody came along and condensed the material into one 'writing', it probably would resonate like it does in the Pentateuch.

That is probably why Reuel is mentioned as Moses' Father-In-Law and in other cases as Jethro.

[Miss Hepburn]

Letting this group know,
2-3 sentences in quotes only, as Admin has asked for months now.
We are beginning to just delete the post for those that know this, but ignore the Admins.
Nothing personal.

[DavidHenson]

Greenslade, a response to post #76:

What is the evidence that Genesis is mostly a re-write of the Tales of Gilgamesh? How is it similar? How is is dissimilar? When was it circulated? When was the Bible written? How long after the events that allegedly took place in Genesis did Moses allegedly write them and what happened in between them taking place and him allegedly writing them?

You say the only difference is the dimensions of the ark? No.

The meaning of the Hebrew word El is uncertain, it probably means strong one. Associated with power. Shining one is the Hebrew heilēl (Greek phosphoros, Latin lucifer).

The Hebrew word malakh is translated angel. The English word angel comes from the Greek aggelos. Both meaning messenger. (Genesis 16:7; 32:3; James 2:25; Revelation 22:8)

Regarding your statement that elohim and Yahweh were of Sumerian rather than Hebrew origin what evidence do you have? There is a great deal of dispute on the origins of Sumerian, Hebrew, Akkadian, languages because they appear fully developed in the earliest writings, so it's difficult to establish for certain the origin of those words. (How the Hebrew Language Grew, 1960, pp. xix, xx) However, I see no reason at all to conclude they are of Sumerian origin.

Part of the difficulty and well - perhaps more accurately part of the confusion lies in the fact that the Semitic language was spoken in variation throughout the general area and, due to cultural and geographic barriers those languages, though similar enough that they could be understood internationally, contained deviations. For example, the Hebrew Elohim and the Canaanite ilhm. (See Wikipedia)

I can't imagine why you would see a correlation with Marduk and Jehovah. In the pre-Abrahamic Bible God is Enlil and Enki? Can you support that with scriptural references? It seems you are equating mythologies vaguely based upon semantics. El was Semitic for god. Elohim for god(s).

Mythologies mix, over time, with other myths and with truths. So you can say Marduk was a god and Jehovah was a god. If the meaning of the words for god are confused in that they are thought erroneously to be the name of specific gods that only adds to the confusion and allows for the incorrect assumption to be made that one god is the same as another god because they are both gods.

I do agree that gods were thought of differently then than they are now, namely, that mortals can be gods. Although, actually that isn't entirely the case because the definition of gods today includes many examples of people. The difference is that these mortal gods (Eric Clapton, Kim Jong-un) are commonly thought only to be gods in a metaphoric or even ironic sense. Put simply people seem to think a mortal god is only someone who thinks they are equal with god.

[DavidHenson]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

it probably would resonate like it does in the Pentateuch.

That is probably why Reuel is mentioned as Moses' Father-In-Law and in other cases as Jethro.

It wouldn't resonate like it does in the Pentateuch because it doesn't resonate in the Pentateuch. One reason it doesn't, from a purely logical perspective, you yourself point out. People knew. From 1513 BCE to 96 CE they knew. From then until the 1800's they still knew. And then someone comes along and claims they didn't. Why? Based upon what?

Why? Because academia wanted to challenge orthodox religion. Certainly nothing wrong with that but they should have something better to do it with.

Based upon what. Writing style? Doesn't work. Use of Elohim and Yahweh? All writers credited to the writing used both, so does the fictional writers of the documentary theory.

What about Exodus 4:18? There Reuel is called Jether in the Masoretic text. Any significance to that in your opinion? Reuel seems to be a personal name while Jethro seems to be a title. It was common for Arabian chiefs to have more than one name.

The Jews say he had seven names.

And Hobab. Judges 4:11

[BigJohn]

the usage of the name Reuel and Jethro appear to have been written by 2 different people.

If somebody compiled our writings into one document, would not some people wonder why at times the document reads in a certain fashion, for example, using the name Jehovah, whereas the other uses Yahweh? How long would it take somebody to realize that 2 or more people wrote the main articles and then they were compiled together by somebody else?

And when we look at the first creation account, was that written by somebody who believed in Yahweh or was it somebody who believed in Elohim?