It isn't ONE Self it is Self that is all there is ..

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey Teds :) Well...I agree "ultimate truth" is not something any of us can ever definitively lay claim to, that's for certain.


7L

Hey,

For sure, not if one wants to claim that what was realised is an ultimate truth that is beyond the mind . If it isn't a realisation beyond the mind then it's not a realisation that encapsulates a comparison .

One always needs a companion in this respect otherwise one doesn't have an understanding of what self and mind and truth is compared to not .

If there has only ever been a hall of mirrors present, then one is not seeing beyond their own reflection .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I do wonder however if perhaps some of the difference (not all, mind you) that we may encounter has to do with how folks experience their perceptions. What I mean is that when some folks, for example, say, "I had an NDE, or an epiphany" or "Jesus came to me", etc., and are asked to describe it (as best they can)...some say it was a feeling...there were no visuals, no tangibles. Or they say Jesus came as a presence...no visuals, no tangibles. Or, "I felt the presence of God" or "I spoke to God"...but there is no visual, no audio...nothing but the spiritual sense. As opposed to the "usual" senses.


7L

From a mindful perspective there are potentially as many ways to perceive self as there are individual self's .

This is the beauty of individuality, the uniqueness of each snowflake, not being identical but in a way all similar, and made form the same stuff .

It is therefore true that how one see's things will be true to them within this context .

A mirage is how they truthfully perceive what is supposedly there, but under different conditions it's seen through as not being there, same goes for the rope and the snake, so everything depends on the individual and how they see themselves in reflection of everything else .

You only get to know the mirage is a mirage when it no longer is .

It's only false or untrue when it's seen to be different from that, but where does it all end, seeing the world as light and not physical matter, seeing beyond the light into nothingness .

It can be a moving target in this respect but I would say keeping within certain contexts is beneficial in these instances .


x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey Panda, hope you are well

Thank you so much Daz and I hope you're well too. TBH I really appreciate the hug, LOL. Felt overwhelmed a few days back and had to sit with it (very uncomfortably) for several days. Sitting was actually quite difficult tho, LOL..as I felt super anxious and restless. I realized within the last few days, after coming through the worst of it, everything I'd been holding in came forward. Think it was mostly PTSD from the latest installment of the quasi-authoritarian project that the West has been scoping out and trolling, like a casual shag. Like, we've survived for now, but WTH just happened? This one's got teeth and once you give those views a legitimate place at the table, they'll eat you alive. I fought against this in so many lifetimes. This round, I was hoping we could all just get a move on with actually working on making our democracies more authentic. Instead, we've got to fight to keep democracy alive in any meaningful way. Because that's the deal...you continually move forward regardless. In what way, is up to us. We can choose to move toward greater democracy or greater autocracy...that is up to us.

From what I know / experience there is a way about you or about self that mirrors what you proclaim about self lol .

If you're a guru type for use of a better word, you're simply not behaving in a particular way that puts another down and deflects amongst other things .

You speak about coming form the heart and a place of being grounded .. this is how I see it myself .

Good on you. The world needs more kindness and more wisdom, both. It's a journey inward and a journey outward. Sometimes, the focus of the challenge or work is more internal, sometimes more external...often both, LOL.

I have had convo's here where I am being criticised for standing my ground and not having my face slapped by other's simply for asking questions lol. I should rise above it all where all the attention is on me for not putting up with it rather than addressing the abusers lol .

The world is a bit mad, as well. Whole social structures rely on some of us, or many of us, taking the poop and smiling, or at least not missing a beat and getting on with it. At work for example. Sadly, often at home. Or in public in class- and caste-based societies...an aspect I particularly detest. I agree that wherever we have the freedom to be and do as we are, we should freely say no to abuse and freely call it out.

It's bonkers .. but like you say, coming form a grounded-ness and from the heart wouldn't reflect in someone to stand up for themselves in the first place, this is why it doesn't add up .

You have peeps coming from a higher spiritual position acting and behaving like an ar$ehole trying to put other's down who are genuinely being honest and coming from the heart .

I think this is a general pattern of behaviour to be honest, I certainly have experienced this most of my life in some shape or form .

I think it likely is fairly universal. In the past and in many societies today, societies were perhaps somewhat more uniformly segregated by class and other social markers. Folks were arguably less free to speak their minds without abuse or penalty...and likewise social norms encouraging courtesy and respect may have been more strongly reinforced. So for many reasons, common social discourse seems to often revert to mudslinging these days...and being online and anonymous probably adds to it, whenever we're not grounded, listening, and focused on our mutual humanity.

It's worth speaking about tbh because I think many peeps, like yourself have experienced the same abuse in some shape or form .

As I said to another forum member, I just don't suffer fools gladly anymore, I will put the record straight without any hesitation .

The world needs peeps to weed out the ****. more than ever .

x daz x

It's so important to be the change, I so agree. Also agree we all need to be kind to each other...and sometimes we need reminding. Also, as you note, we've all (most of us) suffered abusive behaviour of various kinds, and most of us would likewise agree it's more than enough already. I feel it's very healthy to draw boundaries and let folks know if they are stepping all over them, LOL, and it's also ok to say ok we can agree to disagree on that, and so forth. What you and others all contribute here toward growth and community is important...it's a gift.

Peace & blessings Teds
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I "see" it from both sides of the coin. I'm fully aware of and don't dismiss the experience of mind-body as I would a dream, and at the same time I'm palpably aware of That which witnesses the experience of mind-body. The prior is rather easy to relate, the latter not so easy.

Aside from the mundane experiences of embodied being I've also had paranormal experiences, most minor that I could write off to coincidence and bias if they weren't so frequent and a handful not so minor.

Hello JustGuy, it's interesting you say that. I feel it's been a lifelong journey to know and honor who I am in all aspects. What we might call the consciousness of the body, for example, speaks many truths to us in many settings, throughout our lives. So does mind. And so does spirit. The challenge IMO is seeking a place of balance that honours all aspects of who we are.

I think some of the rub is a perception the impersonal experience somehow invalidates the personal experience, however I don't see it that way. As I see it that impersonal experience is present for all of us, though perhaps not recognized. I "see" It as That. It's the Extraordinary masquerading as the ordinary. God playing at being not God. How can I dismiss God simply because It's wearing a mask?

You're right...All that is is present for all of us, and for each of us, in each moment. I think we each find our own way to meditate on, ponder, integrate, or connect with that experience. And the truth of that is that the experience cannot be or remain wholly impersonal or abstract, once we seek to apprehend What Is...that is the limitation (and blessing) of our humanity. What we do with that and how we choose to continue to meditate, ponder, integrate, or engage with that, is up to each of us as we walk our paths.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey,

For sure, not if one wants to claim that what was realised is an ultimate truth that is beyond the mind . If it isn't a realisation beyond the mind then it's not a realisation that encapsulates a comparison .

One always needs a companion in this respect otherwise one doesn't have an understanding of what self and mind and truth is compared to not .

If there has only ever been a hall of mirrors present, then one is not seeing beyond their own reflection .


x daz x

Hey there Teds,
Mystics say we are each of us a universe, and thus if you save a life, you save a universe. If each of us is our own universe, we need a multiverse to grow and allow for choice. So...quantum physics is beginning to make sense on the large scale as well, hahaha

I'd say even though mind translates in some fashion, since we are individuated consciousness...still, it's a both/and situation, more so than an either/or. We minimize the filters in spirit...we communicate with as much transparency and authenticity as we are capable. For example, working with the guides or with soul family. If we cannot communicate with authenticity, we really cannot do much with intention and clarity in spirit, for certain.

With minimal filters, with guides, with presence, with illumination...it is both within mind and beyond mind. So, whatever grace, support, love, insights, and truths we may apprehend and receive, those we may bring back with us. To our day-to-day, waking reality and consciousness.

Which begs the question...how do we support one another on our journeys? For many folks, they may not relate to face-to-face work in spirit with guides because they don't perceive spirit through what I call extrasensory ways. On the other side, I try not to be too hard on myself for not resonating with ritual prayer...though I do get that communal prayer is good and I do get that opening up in spirit is good (and I'm working on it)...and that's exactly what many do in their private prayer.

Some find God through prayer to a loving but faceless, wordless presence. Some find comfort in ritual. For many folks, though, God is found mainly in the support we provide to one another...and also in nature and all that is. And that is why when we walk the walk day-to-day with kindness and (hopefully) insight, clarity, and equanimity, we can not only be the change we want in the world, but we can also be there for one another in the way many of us receive God most directly, concretely, and profoundly.

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey,

For sure, not if one wants to claim that what was realised is an ultimate truth that is beyond the mind . If it isn't a realisation beyond the mind then it's not a realisation that encapsulates a comparison .

One always needs a companion in this respect otherwise one doesn't have an understanding of what self and mind and truth is compared to not .

If there has only ever been a hall of mirrors present, then one is not seeing beyond their own reflection .


x daz x

Hey there Teds,
Agreed. The most fundamental truths involve our interbeing in the grand tapestry. Mystics say we are each of us a universe, and thus if you save a life, you save a universe. If each of us is our own universe (of quantum entangled networks), we need a multiverse of one another to grow and allow for choice among those networks. So...quantum physics is beginning to make sense on the large scale as well, hahaha

I'd say even though mind translates in some fashion, since we are individuated consciousness...still, it's a both/and situation, more so than an either/or. We minimize the filters in spirit...we communicate with as much transparency and authenticity as we are capable. For example, working with the guides or with soul family. If we cannot communicate with authenticity, we really cannot do much with intention and clarity in spirit, for certain.

With minimal filters, with guides, with presence, with illumination...it is both within mind and beyond mind. So, whatever grace, support, love, insights, and truths we may apprehend and receive, those we may bring back with us To our day-to-day, waking reality and consciousness.

Which begs the question...how do we support one another on our journeys? For many folks, they may not relate to face-to-face work in spirit with guides because they don't perceive spirit through what I call extrasensory ways. On the other side, I try not to be too hard on myself for not resonating with ritual prayer...though I do get that communal prayer is good & can be beautiful, and I do get that opening up in spirit is good (and I'm working on it)...and that's exactly what many do in their private prayer.

Some find God through prayer to a loving but faceless, wordless presence. Some find comfort in ritual. For many folks, though, God is found mainly in the support we provide to one another...in showing up for one another, in listening and sharing, and in being and doing all this with kindness. And that is why when we walk the walk day-to-day with kindness and (hopefully) insight, clarity, and equanimity, we can not only be the change we want in the world, but we can also be there for one another in the way many of us receive God most directly, concretely, and profoundly.

Peace & blessings
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Teds,
Mystics say we are each of us a universe, and thus if you save a life, you save a universe. If each of us is our own universe, we need a multiverse to grow and allow for choice. So...quantum physics is beginning to make sense on the large scale as well, hahaha

Hey Panda ..

There is so many ways to look at self, the universe, oneness, the totality while being individual lol .

I get it regarding each one of us is a universe, some say that as an individual we are the centre of the universe . It does and doesn't make sense at the same time, for how can each individual be the centre of the universe ..

In a way there is an expansive awareness at play here where peeps understand both instances, but at the same time the world seems to be filled with ignorant individuals that cannot see what's at the end of their noses .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Which begs the question...how do we support one another on our journeys? For many folks, they may not relate to face-to-face work in spirit with guides because they don't perceive spirit through what I call extrasensory ways. On the other side, I try not to be too hard on myself for not resonating with ritual prayer...though I do get that communal prayer is good & can be beautiful, and I do get that opening up in spirit is good (and I'm working on it)...and that's exactly what many do in their private prayer.


7L

I did think of you today, might of been because you responded to the post . Funny how it works like that ..

Supporting people on their journey is a mixed bag isn't it because it depends on if one is completely selfless or not in the support .

I think so many have their own $hite going on that many find it difficult to put themselves out completely while trying to get through each day the best that they can ..

Perhaps it's a true mark of support in these instances, I know that in my healing work at a point I exhausted myself helping others at my own expense .

This did change at some point when I said to myself *** I need to spend more time on myself, for how can one help another if one is not is a position to help because one is depleted of energy and strength ..

Even now my new job has extended into time that I used to heal and help others on a daily basis .. I find myself needing to recover for myself each day and catch up with others at the weekend .. It's just the way it is isn't it .

But I would say even a sincere thought or prayer goes a long way in supporting another, more so than not being sincere and spending an age being there half hearted .

Good to hear your typing voice ;)


x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey Panda ..

There is so many ways to look at self, the universe, oneness, the totality while being individual lol .

I get it regarding each one of us is a universe, some say that as an individual we are the centre of the universe . It does and doesn't make sense at the same time, for how can each individual be the centre of the universe ..

Hey Teds! Yes there really are just so many ways to apprehend the tapestry. On this, I had a brief insight of the fractal "universe" or multiverse, rather. Where we are each a universe unto ourselves, and where we too are given an infinite multiverse of possibilities in each moment in which to evolve and grow, even as the physical realm has its own multiverse of instances.

In a way there is an expansive awareness at play here where peeps understand both instances, but at the same time the world seems to be filled with ignorant individuals that cannot see what's at the end of their noses .

x daz x

Yes...Socrates said that the unexamined life is not worth living, and there is much truth in it. It is a great spiritual burden IMO to live a life without taking time along the way to get to know oneself and the deeper nature of this existence, to live from your centre, from who you are in the most fundamental sense. Living from centre, with awakened mind in service to awakened heart, is the sublime joy of being.



Peace & blessings Teds
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I did think of you today, might of been because you responded to the post . Funny how it works like that ..

Hey there Teds and thanks for your kind thoughts It took me another week to deal with the anxiety and overwhelm, and then it came back again this week, like in waves . So I have just begun to realize I will have to use some strong herbal supplements for a while to get through it. Having never had anything near this intense, I have been learning fast over the last few weeks what it feels like and that I can't fully ride it out just by getting stuff done. I do hear many folks have been going through similar for many months now...from worry over work, the pandemic, the state of our democracies round the globe, etc. Not certain, but I think all these must be affecting me as well.

Supporting people on their journey is a mixed bag isn't it because it depends on if one is completely selfless or not in the support .

Well, to folks in general...I'd say we can strive to be courteous and kind to all (if possible, LOL), or at least not to be unkind. I would say that if we bring clarity and awareness to the moment, we also bring our boundaries and we hope others respect and honour that. Although many ignore that, LOL...and you may have to be quite firm there hahaha

On the selfless part, well, I agree it's a terrible thing to interact from a manipulative and self-centred perspective. But so long as we will and actively seek and support the highest good of others equally to our own highest good, then it's all good ;). That's authentic love and lovingkindness, and that is what I understand selflessness to mean. So I do try to reflect on whether my intentions and actions are in the mutual highest good of myself and others (or others).

Now, within this context of mutual highest good, many things can be evaluated selflessly and with authentic love. Outside of the expanding circle of belonging, I agree it wouldn't make much sense to speak of expectations or selflessness, either one. But within it, much can be clarified or illuminated. For example, one-sidedness of contribution is totally appropriate for parents toward children or other dependents. But it's not equally loving toward oneself to be in a one-sided partnership or friendship, nor in an abusive or oppressive one. This reflects the spiritual truth of the equality of all souls, which translates to the equality of adults on the ground in our material existence.

The fact that most partnerships do not comprise equals in almost any way in the material realm creates inherent conflict and hypocrisy -- but the expectation is rooted in foundational spiritual truths which we intrinsically aim to realise and express in our social and personal realities. This is why not only selflessness but also parity, mutuality, and reciprocity between adults are all truths under authentic love, and all are things we should strive for in all our relationships. In whatever context is appropriate for each of the different relationships in our lives...whether friend, family, partner, neighbor, fellow human being, or citizen of Gaia :)

I think so many have their own $hite going on that many find it difficult to put themselves out completely while trying to get through each day the best that they can ..

It's true that we can only do what we can...I myself have been trying to figure out how to wrap my arms around the overwhelm since late Nov, and am just now getting a handle on it after the 2nd wave. One thing I figured out...you need to be calm and centred to the core, both in heart and mind, in order to come back to who you are at centre. So, at least the learning curve is picking up a bit

Perhaps it's a true mark of support in these instances, I know that in my healing work at a point I exhausted myself helping others at my own expense .

This did change at some point when I said to myself *** I need to spend more time on myself, for how can one help another if one is not is a position to help because one is depleted of energy and strength ..

Even now my new job has extended into time that I used to heal and help others on a daily basis .. I find myself needing to recover for myself each day and catch up with others at the weekend .. It's just the way it is isn't it .

I agree you do need to care for yourself first, and it's often hard to remember that when you're also caring for others.

Those of us who had seemingly boundless energies or who were emotionally and physically extremely resilient often don't learn till later or till crisis hits. Then we realise we too have our limits, and that we need to care for them and to respect and honour them for ourselves just as we do for others.

But I would say even a sincere thought or prayer goes a long way in supporting another, more so than not being sincere and spending an age being there half hearted .

Good to hear your typing voice ;)

x daz x

I agree the kind intentions do go a long way in supporting one another, as does the kind, supportive word or action. All of these are ways of being there for one another in lovingkindness...or, as I put it, we can also be there for one another in the way many of us receive God most directly, concretely, and profoundly.

And it's always good to hear your voice hear as well ;)
Peace & blessings Teds
7L