How do you see death

[JustBe]

Many people will say, “ oh I’m not afraid of death”..

Which, within me wonders curiously..

Death for me has always been something I feared. Up until a number of years ago, (15 yrs) where I had a fairly significant spiritual experience, that led me to its door. What I met at this door, was an array of fears, I’d covered over death. The first one was suffering, so that took some undoing at the core. The other one was I feared the unknown of death. Religious brainwashing certainly laid its foundations in me, to fear things like going to hell, punishment and gods wrath.. lol. Of course those things had to be met in this place of my fear of death.

A few deeper truths arose through this period, an awareness of some deep inner child pacts, how these ideas arose through parental and societies modelling and many associations that reinforced what death meant in me.

As an example, I feared to feel my fears fully, I feared to open up to my feelings complete, because somewhere in my earliest years I associated certain feelings if felt fully, meant I would die. As sad as that sounds, it’s very common.

“If I feel this, remember this feeling, I will die”

Many if my earliest experiences set this up. Things happened to me, I had to face my feelings in those experiences and then I vowed, I would never put myself in those situations again - the childhood pact!

Now it does sound a little extreme, but for many children not supported through difficult emotions, there becomes a pattern learned, in whatever form the child designs those moments in their mind/body. As small children we all need help with big feelings.

Getting back to death, what opened in me, was no longer denying myself full feeling. No longer skipping from heart to head with reason and distractions away from life so as to not feel fully, what my feelings wanted me to feel and face.

As a predominate feeler type, it’s not been easy undoing these deep seated associations, but I see I’ve always held a hidden gift within the dynamics of this messy arrangement for most of my life.

The gift of feeling fully, means I no longer have to react, no longer blame life or others, no longer believe I will die if I feel something deeply painful that holds memories in me that believed I would. . To undo this stuff, my heart had to break a million times, my feeling body had to feel everything without reason.

So the gift as I see this, is in facing death, you face yourself, you face all of you where death keeps you away from looking g at yourself directly. Face to face.

The beautiful aspect of facing this death, is that through it all you believe you will die, so even as things were undoing, that ever looming fear of death hunted me down, forced me to face myself. It hovered over me like a big dark shadow.

At the end point if this three month rush, I literally felt because I’d felt everything pulled up and out of me, that this meant death. So at that pint I surrendered to its very menacing clutch and let myself lay down and let myself believe I would die. Of course at that point, I didn’t die, but I was shown death in the many ways we hold onto its clutches. Some known, some not, until you walk through and see.

If I bring death into my energy space, it’s there but doesn’t have attachments creating enormous heavy holds in me.

It’s there, it’s recognised and it’s part of life.

I see many people deeply affected by grief and death. I’ve had people project their fear of death at me in very difficult ways for me to feel. Twisted and entangled by their own hands, but very much struggling to take ownership fully.

Bearing their projections in not so pretty ways was difficult, to feel his fear of his own mortality, to feel him disparate my new found centre in ways he rejected in himself was very hard. But the inclusion of him in this way in me, allowed me to let go even deeper. (They know not what they do)

Having it all bear down upon me, was my lesson to let everything go around death in me.

The death that I created through others as myself.

.

[Nikos1982]

Yes..

As I understand from your message you allowed a type of surrendering to all that you are, including death...

I think this surrendering is the key, or it's where the key (to your freedom) lies...

~~~~~

~~~~~

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Nikos1982

Yes..
As I understand from your message you allowed a type of surrendering to all that you are, including death...
I think this surrendering is the key, or it's where the key (to your freedom) lies...

Yes very much so.

I must add that this was the core entry point in myself. This was the place where I wasnt really afraid to feel before this process kicked in. The layers overlaid this level were not the crux of it all. Getting to the roots will definitely reveal the stranglehold we hold or not.

So I guess in relation to this topic, it shows we can be oblivious to our inner reality that deep, not really know what we fear, until we walk it through.

[Unseeking Seeker]

More than surrendering, I’d say recognition holds the key to overcoming fear of any type, including fear of death of form.

As long as we believe ourself to be this body-mind, we are attached to its well being. When we see clearly that we are a formless awareness, soul or whatever, dwelling in this form to experience duality and know in definitiveness who in truth we are, then fears disappear.

It may be noted that our attention oscillates. So, even after recognition of the truth of our true Self, which is living light eternal, in a singularity, this knowing needs to be assimilated slowly so as to be a part of our active awareness breath by breath. Until then, delusion will certainly manifest fear even though we know it shouldn’t be so, yet it appears!

During the spiritual awakening process, we face ego death. This question is posed and we need to face it head on, the manner in which it appears may vary from person to person.

[JustBe]

I think it varies from person to person. People have NDE and seem to reset themselves, plus those like adyashanti or tolle who shifted profoundly without too much engagement.

I found myself very much land back into reality after this process, the climb after this was very much about assimilation or integrating deeper processors now the door had been flung open. It really was only the beginning

[Still_Waters]

QOUTE 5 EXCERPT

Originally Posted by JustBe

People have NDE and seem to reset themselves, plus those like adyashanti or tolle who shifted profoundly without too much engagement.

Having personally had an NDE many many years ago, it was both mind-boggling and life-transforming. It also removed any fears of physical death as it became perfectly clear that life continues "in some manner" ) after physical death (that "in some manner" is in itself an interesting discussion).

That NDE experience was so peaceful that I initially just wanted to stay there and abide in that proverbial "peace that surpasseth all understanding". However, it became clear that it was important to return and I was aware of my consciousness descending back into the physical vehicle which, ... to the shock of the doctors, was completely symptom-free despite them having already confirmed that I had passed away.

That led me to a life-long spiritual quest to understand not only what had transpired but also ... through meditation ... to discover how to return to that "peace that surpasseth all understanding" state. That led me to the dying-before-death practices inherent in the Buddhist, yoga, and Sufi traditions as well as in other wisdom traditions. Such practitioners, as with my teacher and others whom I have known, can leave their body behind (also known as physical death ) when they choose to leave.

If the subject of death fascinates you, you might be interested in attending some Death Cafes either online or in person. They are NOT bereavement groups and they are NOT counseling groups. Participants discuss subjects related to death similar to topics that you are raising here. For the most part, Death Cafes are completely free though some will accept donations. There is an online website where you can search for Death Cafes either in-person in your area (they are all over the world) or online. You can even start one yourself and post the information on that site.

www.deathcafe.com

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

That NDE experience was so peaceful that I initially just wanted to stay there and abide in that proverbial "peace that surpasseth all understanding". However, it became clear that it was important to return and I was aware of my consciousness descending back into the physical vehicle which, ... to the shock of the doctors, was completely symptom-free despite them having already confirmed that I had passed away.

StillWaters,

You were gifted with a wonderful experience. Proverbs 3:5…”Trust in the Lord(the divine) and lean not on your own understanding.” This is a hurdle….the more one is gifted intellectually the more one is prone to trusting their understanding….this is the ego that is your advocate. But your experiences surpassed your understanding. I interpret this as an experience of the unitive state.

A side note to this is Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. Some have speculated that the death of Lazarus was due to an initial rite that went amiss. The purpose of this rite essentially was to produce an NDE.

On a recent international flight, unable to sleep, I watched several movies. Very meaningful for me was The Good Person with Morgan Freeman. He played an alcoholic that benefited greatly from AA….able to change his own life and to subsequently help others do the same. All of the beneficiaries experienced the subduing of their egos. A seminal moment in the movie was Freeman translating his tattoo. It was _Amor fati_ Latin for love your fate. Being oriented to the Scriptures I began connecting the dots. Verses that came to mind essentially were ones that spoke of “praising God in all things”……in other words loving your fate.

To go along with this I was reminded of “to whom much is given, much is expected”. Stupid of me for years to think this is restricted to the qualities, the abilities, that we deem as valuable and beneficial. I would have never entertained the idea that addicts are given much. One can argue that mistakes are the key to real learning. Mistakes, by nature, are humbling and one of my favorite verse is “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” The ego is an impediment to grace.

I saw much in your posting that brought all of this to mind…..thanks for your sharing…..:)

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 53 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Molearner

But your experiences surpassed your understanding. I interpret this as an experience of the unitive state.

A side note to this is Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead.

Your intuitive understanding of my NDE experience is right on target: "I interpret this as an experience of the unitive state."

The part that I didn't mention in my previous post was that, during my NDE, I experienced what many call "remote viewing". I could see far beyond my hospital room and the hospital walls. One validating experience was that I could see my brother and sister down the hallway and could accurately describe what they were wearing even though they never entered my room. I realized that, from a certain vantage point, everything without exception was connected in some way --- "the unitive state" as you so aptly described it.

Furthermore, as you also noted, "your experiences surpassed your understanding". Considering my Roman Catholic upbringing, the experience definitely surpasssed my understanding and whatever I had learned/heard during my Catholic school days. It obviously served as a catalyst for exploring and discovering far more than is taught to the masses.

Your reference to Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead also sparked my interest. Unfortunately, there is no record of Lazarus saying anything about what it was like when he was physically "dead". That is why I sought out stories about those who returned from the dead and could talk about what they experienced. The Buddhist monk (Sogyal Rimpoche, Tibetan Book of Living and Dying) was able to tell me in a one-on-one dialogue about the monk who was raised from the dead by his master in order to guide him properly through the bardos (death transitions). In addition, Yogananda's book (Autobiography of a Yogi) includes a chapter about a young friend of Sri Yukteswar who was raised from the dead and his story closely parallels a lot of my own near death experience.

This is indeed a fascinating subject and I'm glad that OP started this thread.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QOUTE 5 EXCERPT
Having personally had an NDE many many years ago, it was both mind-boggling and life-transforming. It also removed any fears of physical death as it became perfectly clear that life continues "in some manner" ) after physical death (that "in some manner" is in itself an interesting discussion).

www.deathcafe.com

Thanks for sharing your story still waters. I’m not that fascinated by death nowdays, more that as I’m integrating within myself, these streams arise in me through others and experiences they are moving through, so where I am now is at peace with this matter. Like your experience, my experience through that three month period of letting go cleared the way to integrate a deeper grounded sense of peace with what is.

NDE’s as I’ve read about tend to reveal a bigger picture in some form of peoples current life experience. So touching upon these experiences and building direct awareness of how we can feel and see life, tends to move us closer to this in our real life experience.

As I see life and death without separation, it makes sense in me, that the innate within us all moves us closer in many varied ways we can experience ourselves in this body, as a great reminder how we can live this life, beyond human conditioning..

Surrendering to death is surrendering to life differently than we’ve known previously. An intersection often opening a door to life as a major crossroad of change.

Sometimes we need a greater degree of understanding or a ‘wake up call’ to move into a new beginning and often NDE or my spiritual intervention or other profound experiences people go through, move us into a faster manifestation if change.

[Starman]

Still Waters, I saw the link at the bottom of your post #51, and I just wanted to mention that I support Death Café here in the U.S. We have one in my hometown, Las Cruces, New Mexico, and they are opening people’s hearts and minds to the transition we call “death.”

In the U.S. death was traditionally a taboo subject which many found depressing to talk about, and if it was talked about at all it was in a religious context, being saved, etc. Death Café is changing that around the world, with a non-religious or non-preaching theology approach.

People today are discussing death from an experiential point of view as never before in the past. Lots of people are telling tales of OBE‘s and NDE‘s that are very intimate and personal. We see images of death all over the T.V. news these days and I am glad to see that Death Café is a worldwide movement growing in momentum.