STOP

Why don't we STOP 'moving' (i.e. STOP desiring,thoughts,attachments,sensual pleasures) and feel the 'PRESENCE' of "THAT"?

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by Viswa

Why don't we STOP 'moving' (i.e. STOP desiring,thoughts,attachments,sensual pleasures) and feel the 'PRESENCE' of "THAT"?

What's it take to wake up from a dream?

"Tell them I'm awake." -- Buddha

[Miss Hepburn]

Well, many of us do!

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Well, many of us do!

Your story amazes me. How do you DO that? (Go from a few unforgettable moments, to staying in that state for an extended period in time) I have a weird situation. I've been talking to "the sage" in the I Ching for about 45 years. That's a duality I don't quite know how to transcend.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by alanantic

How do you DO that?

Dissatisfaction, desire, discipline and determination.

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Dissatisfaction, desire, discipline and determination.

I see the problem...I keep trying to use logic! (You'd think that would work!) If our motive in life is to transcend it, you'd think logic would help us build a platform to jump into that Unknown. Wouldn't that be logic's purpose, to bring us to the edge of it? Yet, from what I remember from my few moments of Clarity, logic was never involved! Stillness or quietude was there, though. So, I've been working on being "Still", while I'm going through a whirlwind of change. Ain't been easy!

Originally Posted by alanantic

I keep trying to use logic! (You'd think that would work!) If our motive in life is to transcend it, you'd think logic would help us build a platform to jump into that Unknown.

From an Advaita perspective here's how I see it. Knowledge alone (Jnana Yoga) might point one to the threshold but quietude (meditation/Raja Yoga), service (action/Karma Yoga) and devotion (Bhakti Yoga) are also required to be carried across the threshold.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by alanantic

I see the problem...I keep trying to use logic!
If our motive in life is to transcend it, you'd think logic would help us build a platform to jump into that Unknown.
Wouldn't that be logic's purpose, to bring us to the edge of it?...

Logic. Ha! Logic is great when trying to fig out where you may have put your car keys.
But, to use the limited finite to get to the Infinite? Good luck with that!
But you said, 'bring us to the edge' - excellent!

MY logic goes like this: I have a pea-sized brain that
has input using about 1/4 inch on the EM Spectrum (if the scale was 6 inches).
As I always say: Why, an eagle sees farther, a dog hears more than us!
We are so limited - our puny logic can take us so far.
We are not even aware of a 1000 waves passing thru our roofs right now and thru us from every direction.
That would be one reason Buddhist teachers purposely make NO sense to their students to get then past logic...and into 'the zone'!!

[Ewwerrin]

You can't stop these things, and trying to stop these things just gives one more of these things to try and stop.

But we can ofcourse feel the presence, and in that moment, there would be an expansion of the feeling presence, in our experience of being. But you gotta do it for the feeling of presence, not to stop the other things. Other wise the "other things" will be dominant in the experience.

Whatever you resist, you get more of. Whatever you focus upon, you get more of. You become of like vibration and expand like unto it.

Whenever we say no to something, we get more of that which we say no towards. And when we allow it, aswell.

The only choice we have is to allow, what we choose to allow more of. And realising that allowing is the only thing that really creates/allows our reality.

We realise that, it seems like the things we resist, stay away from us. But in actual reality, it is the misunderstanding of that thing we resist, that causes us to resist it, and that is why we will always continue to receive it, in its true nature of being, when we stop resisting. Releasing the misunderstanding and opening up to the true realisation, that allows anything not part of us to simply vanish and dissapear / be repelled, naturally. Because we also allow ourselves and our own greater allowed realisation of who we are, to expand naturally beyond anything unwanted, by simply allowing our alignment with the allowed realisation of who we are and what we want thus as we expand into more alignment with our source of being.

And the things we desire to experience, are always going to flow towards us. To the degree that we allow our evermore natural and effortless and joyful greater allowed realisation of them. Through our unconditional allowed realisation of placing our enjoying awareness unto it. And aligning the perspective, releasing resistant discordant perspectives of it, and allow the natural expansion of evermore greater allowed realisation.

We will always want something and then realise it more fully, and want something more than it again, and it will always come to us, when we allow our awareness more of it. And we will always feel wether we are allowing more what we want or resisting more what we want, by thoughts/perspectives or frequency of awareness that are not in alignment with the thing we seek to realise as it is already being and becoming expanding in being and becoming by our soul, of which we are an inseperable extension, and we will always feel our relationship to that as emotion.

And we are always expanding, from soul also, and we will always have some gap between us and our soul of which we are an inseperable extension, as it is always expanding for us, unconditionally, being and becoming evermore all things we want to be do or have, vibrationally at the source of our being. And so it's really always going to take some "letting go" of our resistance or suffering or discord, and align with the "presence" by feeling our emotional guidance and allowing the alignment with the newly expanded here and now presence of our soul, to feel better, relief, and good.

And then we enjoy life and come to new realisations and perspectives and we ask for yet more, and our soul takes it becomes it and again there is a gap. We have to allow it to be closed, by not doing the things we've been used to doing, that now widen the gap, as we relax and let go and allow, to close the gap again, between us and our inner being/soul/source, to enjoy the expansion along with our source, from our physical vantage point.

It is an eternal process that will always be the same in essence, but the frequency of our experience of it will always be changing.

Sometimes life causes powerful new desire and powerful expansion of our soul and being, and then closing the gap is a long process of closing a bit further and a bit further and a bit further, with accelerating frequency, that makes it seem like we're going up and down and up and down faster and faster, but we're actually moving up, step by step, as every new step is truely a bit different and a new step. And to realise it, sometimes we have to let go of old, that feels like going down, as a process of reorienting.

But we cannot stop the desire/life force/soul expansion. It is an eternal process of creation. When people say they wanna stop it, what they are saying is, they want to stop the "gap" between them and their soul, that feels like suffering. But that cannot be stopped either. The only way to allow it to close naturally and effortlessly, evermore, is to simply allow it. And relax into it. And accept it. And "feel the presence" as you say. As you feel bad, and the bad feeling is there to help you realise that the gap is needing to be tended to, and allowed to close, as you have become more now, and it is time to become one with the moreness that your soul has become. Time to reorient into a new greater/different perspective.

So what you say is very important. And valuable and eternally true to the core of our being and path of evermore becoming. "Feel the presence" and allow. It will always be an endless journey of allowing the alignment between us and our soul, which causes us to expand our soul again, and then have to do it again. And again and again and again. And to really relax into it and accept it and enjoy this eternal journey that never ends. That suffering is not the end, but the beginning of something new and greater, that we suffer less when we realise there is something greater and better for us to be realised in the moment and reorient towards, our greater allowed realisation of it, by also feeling the presence and our emotional relativity to our ever expanding soul here and now.
Is to accept the cycle, and allow it to be the natural better feeling process by which we are eternally being and becoming evermore here and now. Where we constantly choose to relax and feel a bit better into a new realisation and feel a bit better to a new realisation again and again, as there will always be more and better feeling and newer realisations and greater realisations to be allowed forevermore. always here and now.

That doesn't mean we have to accept the suffering. Rather realise that as we "Feel the presence" we get to learn that true acceptance always feels better. That acceptance and allowing is something deeper than the word. It is about our eternal relative energy motional relationship between us and our source/soul.

So if we allow ourselves to be anyway that feels better emotionally, we are moving towards greater acceptance and allowance. And it will always be different, but at the core essence, energy motionally, in relationship to our source of being and becoming evermore here and now, it will always be a process of "allowing more our alignment with our ever expanding Source, again and again." Catching up to it. By relaxing into it. Going along with the joy of it. And we naturally learn to do that, by "feeling the presence."

And since this is an eternal process, you cannot get it wrong and you wont ever get it done.

And sometimes if the realisation that it is an eternal process causes pain, there will be allot of time spend in neutrality and experience allot of minor and subtle shifts of consciousness, to help one realise how easy and effortless and simple and almost boringly simple and easy and invulnerable the eternal process can be. So that we can then align with the greater allowed realisation of it and expansion of it and experience of it in a more eternally unconditionally joyful way, without any worry or resistance. By realising that the pain is just causing us to expand our soul. And that's the worst that can happen to us. Something that "expands who we are into something more and greater and better to be realised by us." And since we will always be an inseperable extension of that ever expanding greater source being and becoming, we got nothing to worry about. Just relax and allow our alignment with that and evermore natural and effortless greater allowed realisation of all that greater realisation of all things we want to be do or have, ever expandingly and being and becoming evermore here and now, evermore, and more and on and on and on. new and greater and better and different. etc etc etc.

Letting go of the past a bit more again and feel better a bit more again, and allow the new here and now a bit more again and allow our alignment with our soul a bit more here and now again and feel better again. And then we feel good and enjoy, and come to new experiences and realisations and perspectives and we realise new desires and our soul expands again and we close the gap again by allowing more again and finding emotional relief again. Wether it is extreme or subtle, fast or slow or both intertwined. There's always gonna be something more, something else and something new to allow and realise and come into alignment with and allowing the new moreness of new enjoyment of its newness. As we eternally co-create all of it with our source evermore here and now. Under any and all conditions, regardless of any and all conditions, unconditionally, from the source of all being and becoming conditions, that we can always feel our emotional relativitiy to our moreness or greater or lesser allowed alignment with this source of us, who we are an eternally inseperable extension of it, yet we co-expand with it also by our own being and becoming.

I'm speaking about,

Neither accumulating nor resisting.
Neither allowing nor disallowing.
Neither understanding nor misunderstanding.

We see clearly that "Movement" is nothing but thought/illusion.


So, why not don't care about "what moves, what not moves, what is, what not is" and "STOP" searching/questioning/moving. Whatever you search, is only through "thoughts/knowledge/experience/senses", which is also "illusions", so negate them totally?.

I know neither what 'universe/atom/viswa/Ewwerrin/people/etc..' is, nor interested in "knowing" them, because "knowledge restricts one with time/illusions by comparing/conflict.

The "TRUE" "KNOWLEDGE" is to know that "Nothing can be KNOWN" as every'thing'/'person' changes/moves every second.

So, the remaining essence is just "STOP".