It isn't ONE Self it is Self that is all there is ..

[God-Like]

Hi Guy's ..

This seems to be the sticking point in many conversations regarding what you are that experiences life .

There are obviously many levels to what we are but fundamentally speaking from the premise that there is only what you are that can encompass all life as we know it .

All of creation as we know it .

Now what seems to be the case in non duality terms is that there is only ONE .

This is my eyes doesn't mean that there is only ONE Self in a way where ONENESS is one dimensional (excuse the pun).

One is the many and the many is one in this regard, that is why there can be individuality while still retaining fundamentally the sameness that is of all things .

Oneness put across in such a way where anything that relates to twoness must mean separation of oneness is incorrect in my eyes .

There is the incorrect understanding of oneness to begin with which creates a premise of there cannot be twoness .

I welcome your thoughts ...

(I didn't post this in the non duality section in order to captivate a larger audience and perspective).

Of course from a hard core non duality standing pointing there is no one here to have any thoughts on this and yet thoughts do come to the fore within awareness of your very self lol ..

Does anyone else find these type of statements bonkers?


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Does anyone else find these type of statements bonkers?

Hey there Dazza


Bonkers is one word for it, yes, and discussions like these typify Spirituality, where people embrace Spirituality whole-heartedly and try to deny the human aspects of themselves. Equally one-dimensional. It has less to do with Spirituality and more to do with thinking patterns and often duality vs non-duality - or any discussion of 'this' vs 'that' - is simple binary thinking.

It's called the Vesica Pisces and is the basis for the Christian fish symbol and the ancient Egyptian Eye of Ra, the pre-Taoist alchemists called it Triplex Unity and it forms the basis for the Buddhist Flower and Egg of Life. Draw a circle, call it Oneness. Draw an overlapping circle, call it Separation. In the relationship - relationship NOT vs - between Oneness and Separation the eye appears. In the relationship between Spirituality and 'being human' another eye appears - Spiritual is one dimension, human is another and the relationship is a third. Being able to embrace/encompass that is a fourth dimension of consciousness - then consciousness itself 'above' that, from the perspective of the being creating the relationship - is the fifth dimension.

What we end up with is the Buddhist Flower of Life where everything is related, where Oneness can only exist with Separation. What many people don't seem to understand is that Oneness can't exist without separation, Spirituality can't exist without the human, non-duality can't exist without duality.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there Dazza


Bonkers is one word for it, yes, and discussions like these typify Spirituality, where people embrace Spirituality whole-heartedly and try to deny the human aspects of themselves. Equally one-dimensional. It has less to do with Spirituality and more to do with thinking patterns and often duality vs non-duality - or any discussion of 'this' vs 'that' - is simple binary thinking.

It's called the Vesica Pisces and is the basis for the Christian fish symbol and the ancient Egyptian Eye of Ra, the pre-Taoist alchemists called it Triplex Unity and it forms the basis for the Buddhist Flower and Egg of Life. Draw a circle, call it Oneness. Draw an overlapping circle, call it Separation. In the relationship - relationship NOT vs - between Oneness and Separation the eye appears. In the relationship between Spirituality and 'being human' another eye appears - Spiritual is one dimension, human is another and the relationship is a third. Being able to embrace/encompass that is a fourth dimension of consciousness - then consciousness itself 'above' that, from the perspective of the being creating the relationship - is the fifth dimension.

What we end up with is the Buddhist Flower of Life where everything is related, where Oneness can only exist with Separation. What many people don't seem to understand is that Oneness can't exist without separation, Spirituality can't exist without the human, non-duality can't exist without duality.

Hey there Greeny ...

I think certain folks (non dual illusory folks) would say there is only the appearance of separation .

In a way there is no separation if we simply relate to what we are as being all there is .

It's a common understanding that relates to oneness isn't it . So although there can be an experience had of an elephant there can be also an experience of a mouse
there is no fundamental separation between the mouse and the elephant but there is an individual experience had that relates to them .

What is inferred in non dual terms is that there cannot be individuality because there is oneness so what appears to be individuality is false and illusory .

What is apparent though is that no matter how hard a non dualist states their claim they don't appear to live by it and that is the dead giveaway in my eyes .

I agree that everything is related in what you say regarding the flower of life .

Thanks for the history lesson ;)



x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey there Greeny ...

I think certain folks (non dual illusory folks) would say there is only the appearance of separation .

In a way there is no separation if we simply relate to what we are as being all there is .

It's a common understanding that relates to oneness isn't it . So although there can be an experience had of an elephant there can be also an experience of a mouse
there is no fundamental separation between the mouse and the elephant but there is an individual experience had that relates to them .

What is inferred in non dual terms is that there cannot be individuality because there is oneness so what appears to be individuality is false and illusory .

What is apparent though is that no matter how hard a non dualist states their claim they don't appear to live by it and that is the dead giveaway in my eyes .

I agree that everything is related in what you say regarding the flower of life .

Thanks for the history lesson ;)



x daz x

I don't know what you had for breakfast, Daz, and you don't know what colour of pyjamas I had on last night and had it not been for this forum neither of us would know the other existed. I am not all there is. And the objective reality is that all reality is subjective. And if "WE" are being all there is? Self only exists in relation to not-self, whatever that is.

Non-dualism is that individuality is false and illusory, isn't that duality in that you have that which is false and that which is - at least implied anyway - true? Or is it a cognitive disorder? I love it when non-dualists use dualism in their argument that there is no duality.

While people are going to spend so much time waxing Spiritual about oneness and separation they're going to miss one single point that is so simple it's difficult to understand - if there is no individuality there is no oneness. Is that so hard to understand? Individuality 'drives' consciousness, oneness becomes stagnation.


Together, we are one.

Originally Posted by God-Like

It's no good as I see it having a premise about reality and the nature of appearances that pertain to the person when such appearances negate the foundation of the premise .

Sometimes Spirituality isn't about Spirituality.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I don't know what you had for breakfast, Daz, and you don't know what colour of pyjamas I had on last night and had it not been for this forum neither of us would know the other existed. I am not all there is. And the objective reality is that all reality is subjective. And if "WE" are being all there is? Self only exists in relation to not-self, whatever that is.

Non-dualism is that individuality is false and illusory, isn't that duality in that you have that which is false and that which is - at least implied anyway - true? Or is it a cognitive disorder? I love it when non-dualists use dualism in their argument that there is no duality.

While people are going to spend so much time waxing Spiritual about oneness and separation they're going to miss one single point that is so simple it's difficult to understand - if there is no individuality there is no oneness. Is that so hard to understand? Individuality 'drives' consciousness, oneness becomes stagnation.


Together, we are one.

Sometimes Spirituality isn't about Spirituality.

I agree and you put across many aspects here that I myself have presented in times gone by .

The comparison needed in regards to your thoughts on all there is and not-self is inline with the dream realty needing a comparison for what isn't a dream reality .

This is common sense and straightforward to require a comparison for what is made as a statement .

The weird thing is that these statements about the reality doesn't hold any weight because the foundation is a dream and there is no one here to know the truth of that or realise that . Dream characters cannot know anything, there is just an appearance of someone seemingly knowing something .

I do try and understand certain peeps premises and I ask questions to death in order for peeps to explain themselves but it rarely happens as I am sure folks have seen on the forums over the years .

It's funny to see peeps argue their case while their premise doesn't support the truth of it .


x daz x

[muffin]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey there Greeny ...


I agree that everything is related in what you say regarding the flower of life .

Thanks for the history lesson ;)



x daz x

Good afternoon daz

Not so much as a history lesson, it's still relevant today.

What is born between the two

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by muffin

Good afternoon daz

Not so much as a history lesson, it's still relevant today.

What is born between the two

Yes mate, it's still relevant today ..


x daz x

[Busby]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Guy's ..

There are obviously many levels to what we are but fundamentally speaking from the premise that there is only what you are that can encompass all life as we know it .


x daz x

All of these many levels are all embedded in oneness.

Each leaf on a tree, ants, elephants, thoughts, cities, you, me, stars, and so on reflects the state of being. This world started when you came into it. You created yourself in your mother's womb to be able to partake and experience a world outside yourself.
You, as an aspect of oneness rely upon all that you experience to create feedback to the universe in order to know that you are here.

There's not much more to be said; except that what you do with what we call life is up to you.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Busby

All of these many levels are all embedded in oneness.

Each leaf on a tree, ants, elephants, thoughts, cities, you, me, stars, and so on reflects the state of being. This world started when you came into it. You created yourself in your mother's womb to be able to partake and experience a world outside yourself.
You, as an aspect of oneness rely upon all that you experience to create feedback to the universe in order to know that you are here.

There's not much more to be said; except that what you do with what we call life is up to you.

I get what your saying and I agree that all these levels are embedded in oneness .

I think oneness means different things to different folk, even though to some there are no folks that are here because as said to Greeny above that would imply separation and oneness doesn't cater for separation .

There is no mother's womb for a babe to experience, no real life for an adult to experience, no other's to love and to cause sufferings too .

The foundation is dreamy and illusory with noone here that actually experiences it .

Even the so called masters that speak about these theories are not actually here and are equally apart of the illusory dream ..

In my eyes it's all contradictory and counter productive to be an illusory spokesperson for non duality while pretending not to be here being a spokesperson .


x daz x

[lemex]

Originally Posted by God-Like

The foundation is dreamy and illusory with noone here that actually experiences it .

In my eyes it's all contradictory and counter productive to be an illusory spokesperson for non duality while pretending not to be here being a spokesperson .x daz x

It is said we are not the body and consciousness may be dimensional and quantum. Iow it, consciousness, already exists.

Consciousness is from consciousness and so is consciousness the same consciousness. In a way for us there is both a longevity of experience (reincarnation) and a number of experiences (multiple experiences) consciousness experiences. This is the realm of consciousness imo not only the longevity but the numbers happening at the same time that otherwise could not be experienced. Our philosophy is to limit one experience at a time to one consciousness one at a time. In a way we think of ourselves as the source, we are not. In a way the duality felt would be the multiple experiencing happening at the same time.

But why the illusion? Because it may be about consciousness not us or about the source that is the many trying to understand itself. But keep in mind all that happens then is one source not many. These are the questions multi experiences happening at the same time. Has the source chosen. The idea seeing illusion is we do not see illusion.

I know we feel consciousness is perfect when we don't know what consciousness is trying to and must experience. Consciousness may be just like us, as above, so below. Reality is replaced with illusion not the other way around. The value of illusion is illusion is not permanent and illusion was and is the opportunity to create when we don't create to we aren't even able to handle illusion, that which we think permanent and real very well.

It is not possible to yet go against our programming.