Consciousness Cannot Have Evolved

https://iai.tv/articles/consciousnes...lved-auid-1302

"In other words, what the author calls the ‘functions of consciousness’ aren’t the cognitive tasks performed by consciousness, but simply those visible to consciousness—i.e. reportable through conscious introspection. Why call these tasks the ‘functions of consciousness’ if they aren’t what consciousness does, but merely what it sees?"

Sounds a lot like observing or witnessing.

"Phenomenal consciousness cannot have evolved. It can only have been there from the beginning as an intrinsic, irreducible fact of nature."

Body-mind - Biological machine with no free will and not the seat of consciousness.

Consciousness - Manifested or reflected as mind (and everything else).

[John32241]

Hi,

My understaning is that human consciousness is just now starting to evolve. What we see first are all the ugly things we have created from the depth of our ignorance.

John

Originally Posted by John32241

Hi,

My understaning is that human consciousness is just now starting to evolve. What we see first are all the ugly things we have created from the depth of our ignorance.

John

I'd say Consciousness always was, is and always will be and independently so. What evolves are the forms that are illuminated by consciousness, one of them being the human mind.

"God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and awakens in man." ~ Ibn Arabi

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

...
"God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and awakens in man." ~ Ibn Arabi

rock >> (instinct) >> plant >> (emotion) >> animal >> (intellect) >> man >> (intuition) >>


.

[John32241]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'd say Consciousness always was, is and always will be and independently so. What evolves are the forms that are illuminated by consciousness, one of them being the human mind.

"God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and awakens in man." ~ Ibn Arabi

Yes I agree. The human mind being the human intellect.

My understaning is that the intellect isolates itself from core wisdom. That there is a natural connection it has with the heart and the 3rd eye. However it needs to be trained through us to integrate itself with those aspects of self.

I am curious about your perspective on that process.

John

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by John32241

Yes I agree. The human mind being the human intellect.

My understaning is that the intellect isolates itself from core wisdom. That there is a natural connection it has with the heart and the 3rd eye. However it needs to be trained through us to integrate itself with those aspects of self.

I am curious about your perspective on that process.

John

John has noted a core truth in 3 parts, in his paragraph of 3 sentences, above. So John, I'm completely agreed with all you've said.
It is about living from the heart centre with awakened mind in service to awakened heart.

Has JustaSimpleGuy (or anyone else) responded back to his query?

The reason why I believe John's statements are key is that I believe it may be quite difficult to address this topic in depth without having come to a heart-centred consciousness and lived it out, day-to-day.

That is, what you share is just not "heard" by many, or it may not resonate or be understood fully. Always a difficult thing.

Perhaps I'm way off base, but I feel my own understanding on this has changed a fair bit over the years. I'll respond to the OP and share it.

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

John has noted a core truth in 3 parts, in his paragraph of 3 sentences, above. So John, I'm completely agreed with all you've said.
It is about living from the heart centre with awakened mind in service to awakened heart.

Has JustaSimpleGuy (or anyone else) responded back to his query?

The reason why I believe John's statements are key is that I believe it may be quite difficult to address this topic in depth without having come to a heart-centred consciousness and lived it out, day-to-day.

That is, what you share is just not "heard" by many, or it may not resonate or be understood fully. Always a difficult thing.

Perhaps I'm way off base, but I feel my own understanding on this has changed a fair bit over the years. I'll respond to the OP and share it.

Peace & blessings
7L

I keep it simple. There's Consciousness/Unified Field depending whether one looks at it from a spiritual or scientific perspective. Everything else is simply a temporary manifestation of and within Consciousness/Unified Field.

Some other labels that can be applied are Absolute, Vast, Infinite, Emptiness, Self, One, Source, Unity, Brahman, God, etc...

I believe what John refers to is a means to that end (knowledge, understanding, realization) and the same can be said for any and all spiritual practices.

[John32241]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

The reason why I believe John's statements are key is that I believe it may be quite difficult to address this topic in depth without having come to a heart-centred consciousness and lived it out, day-to-day.

That is, what you share is just not "heard" by many, or it may not resonate or be understood fully. Always a difficult thing.

Hello 7L,

Nice to see your comment.

I follow the Kryon teachings. One of the things that gets talked about a lot is how a lower consciousness can not comprehend the wisdom presented by a higher consciousness. However if that were 100% true, all of the time, then none of us could evolve.

The key in my mind to evolving is having the humility to appreciate How Much you do not understand. Not many if any intellectual posters has that quality.

The more central key is being compassionate. That involves a great many things like kindness and respect for all ways of being and thinking. This is that heart centered way of being you speak about. Without it nothing can be learned. For the wisdom in the heart is core truth.

Our intellect will always see itself as well informed. That is a natural survival trait. Self preservation being the highest priority for all living creatures. Moving beyond that is not a consideration for many even when they know they are immortal spiritual beings. That is because personal change can indeed be hard.

So I do what I can to answer the questions being asked. I do not mind it when my replies are seemingly not helpful. I feel if I am inspired to respond to a question then it will have some value. The subconscious, which is 1 million times more aware that the intellect (that has been scientifically proven) then in many cases I am responding to a person's subconscious. What I speak about may be beyond their logical reasoning, however at deeper levels, they hear me.

Much of the time I do not get into discussions with others. I do not even read most of what others talk about. If a point of view can not be simply expressed then I would not be able to comprehend it.

John

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'd say Consciousness always was, is and always will be and independently so. What evolves are the forms that are illuminated by consciousness, one of them being the human mind.

"God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and awakens in man." ~ Ibn Arabi

Yes. But maybe consciousness develops wisdom as a result of all these experiences in evolving forms. It has been said that knowledge is the science of the mind while wisdom is the science of the Soul. Such wisdom is like the diamond, created by millions of years of pressure.

Peace

Honestly, I haven't a clue as to the process or interface between Consciousness and mind/intellect/intuition, etc...

One possibility is Orch OR as put forth by Sir Roger Penrose and Dr. Stuart Hameroff. They posit it's only a primitive consciousness, a proto-consciousness interwoven in the fine-scale structure of space-time at the Planck Scale, but maybe that's how it manifests in duality and how we perceive it? If the hypothesis eventually ends up holding water, that is.

It is a very interesting hypothesis, I'll grant them that, and Penrose is perhaps the foremost expert on the structure of space-time.