Jesus the Man vs. Jesus the Christ

[Amilius777]

I don't think many people, especially Christians know how to separate the realities of Jesus the Human Being, and Jesus the Divine Person of the Trinitarian God.

Jesus the human being was a soul or spirit who came from the Spirit-realm as we all have and incarnated. You know that is something else I would love to get off my back and everyone's back!

This idea of incarnation? I bet half of you think of us as vaporous mist who come down from an ethereal heaven and zap into a fetus. You know how a spirit enters flesh? Neither do I.

But from what I can imagine is that the spirit or soul changes into a different "state of consciousness" and simply appears in the flesh like the wind. No one knows where the wind comes from. It is just there! Just like God and the soul. To say you are a spirit incarnate living in a human body you are basically saying that the physical self is bad and unimportant. But in fact the physical consciousness is simply and external extension of your internal consciousness.

So Jesus the individual soul came into flesh from his mother Mary and father Joseph like any other individual. Mary, Jesus' mother had what you hear in Sunday School the "Holy Spirit". So many people think that someone "with the holy Spirit" means someone with a halo over their head speaking in tongues. Silly simple imagery. In fact the holy Spirit is another name for the Holy Wisdom in the Old Testament. The spirit or holy Wisdom is the deep realization of self, God, and others. It is an awareness of your True Self. Mary, this holy woman and mother passed on this awareness to her son Jesus. But Mary did NOT pass on the wounds of inherited sin to her son.

Original sin is not what you were taught. Original sin means in German- "inherited sin" or "inherited wound". It is the wounds given to us unconsciously or consciously from our parents and passed down through all ages. Mother Mary didn't pass any garbage unto Jesus. Jesus grew up like any ordinary child and any ordinary man. We see the breaking away from familial identification at 12 years old! He announces his realization and the Spirit is with him. He knows at 12 years old who he and we truly are! He calls the aloof God of Abraham, his own personal Father.

Jesus a social worker, illiterate, peasant, poor, and son of Joseph was most likely influenced by Essene doctrines which were strange mixtures of Kabbalah, Gnosticism, Buddhism and eastern mysticism. He even followed John the Baptist his own cousin as his personal Tzadik or master. John was most likely of Qumran Essene spirituality. Leading his band of devotees, Jesus was the one who broke the mold. In Jesus, John saw the Universal Cosmic Christ hidden behind his subconscious mind. John knew that the Son of God, the Christ which manifested the material cosmos and secretly hidden behind all external phenomena was secretly hidden or unawakened in Jesus. When John and Jesus parted ways Jesus went back home to maintain his Mother's household with his huge family of siblings: James, Jude, Ruth, Josie, and others. Jesus the man went to his baptism from John, became the Christ, started his ministry, created an unsettling cause that made an effect for his death, and ultimately the resurrection of his physical body.

Jesus the Christ? Jesus the Christ began at his Baptism. John baptized with water to wash away people's measly human idiosyncrasies so God would smite Rome. Jesus came to be baptized so he could be baptized in "spirit" and allow the Christ in him to be awakened. When Jesus rose from the water, the holy Spirit or Wisdom ignited into the depths of his soul and spiritual consciousness and out blossomed the Christ in his every day physical-consciousness. John freaked out! He saw the very Creator of all things with human eyes. Jesus now full of the Awareness, manifested as the Christ. This universal person or intelligence of the Trinity throughout all creation is now manifesting life on a human level. So in John's Gospel we have the 'I AM" sayings of Jesus. Jesus the CHRIST says- "I am the Way!", and "I and my Father are One!". But Jesus the man says- "My soul has grown weak", "Father, please let this cup pass!" "Obey the law of Moses!"

And we have Jesus the God-man, the divine-human union having a ministry, a franchise of 70 something followers and 12 specific companions, exorcisms to cast out people's mental addictions, healing for the sick and dying, and eating meals with all classes bringing a social reformation! The Christ stormed into our history and ate meals with fellow brothers, healed people, fed the poor, and exorcised people's issues. This man brought upon himself the violence of the world, embraced it, and gave back to the world nothing but graces and forgiveness. And on that cross he transformed all that is humanly evil into humanly virtue. And at the end he transformed through a new birth into spirit, dying to the old. He allowed his False self, a relatively good man in time and space, to his True Self the Perfect Man above time and space. The body was then resurrected from the very power that brought the Universe into existence- the light of the Big Bang. And boom! Life is brought back into a shell. And it is transformed into a body of light, a body of universal Christ.

Wheeewwwww!!!!!!!

[jojo50]

I’m sorry, but Jesus was NEVER part of ANY trinity, Jesus NEVER even taught a trinity. Many are taught the trinity because what said here ,(1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one). Obviously satan had man add this line, Or changed Johns words to support the “trinity”. John being a follower of Jesus ,and servant of Jehovah wouldn’t have jotted down a lie. ALSO Jehovah God PICKED these men who WERE servants of his to write HIS words, that’s now in the books called bibles ,(Jer. 30:1,2 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book). And (2Pet. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost). Here should have said something like “Jehovah’s HS”, acknowledging that it’s by him which his faithful knew what to write.


If 1John 5:7 was truly Jesus Father’s words, then why did Jesus said this? ,(“ I and my Father are one” ,John10:30). What he said and what John said would be contradictions, to those that’s seeking. Jesus said at ,(Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father). why WASN’T this third being, even mention?, IF… there “3 gods in one", Because their isn’t. there’s ONLY two high beings in Heaven Jesus and his Father. When Jesus say NOT to basically speak ill of the HS, (Mark 3:9 and Matt. 12:31). He WASN’T referring to a third part of him and his Father. he didn’t even mention his Father ,even when he mention himself, Surely he would have. It’s Jehovah God’s HS, power or active force, which causes whatever he want to happen, happen. So All Jesus was saying was, NO one even have the power his Father has, (which his HS). So no one should speak ill against it, (his power). All one


And Jesus because a “SOUL” when he was placed into Mary’s womb, he WASN’T a spirit then. The SOUL, is a living being, (1Cor. 15:45) , (Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul). And (Luke 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry). Jesus knew the soul ,was a living being. You said ,” Jesus the individual soul came into flesh from his mother Mary and father Joseph like any other individual”. That’s not true, because Jesus WASN’T created through human sperm, but by Jehovah’s HS ,(Matt. 1:20). Sorry again, but Mary didn’t pass sin down to her son, because he wasn’t born of sin. Since it’s the male that actually makes the baby, and women carry’s them. Jesus came by means of God’s HS. But it’ll be silly to believe, (as many do), Mary was sin-free, because she wasn’t. she was just a righteous female who Jehovah God chose to carry his human son.


And!... since Jesus was human, he could have sinned if he wanted to. because His Father didn’t send him in his Heavenly perfect form; Jesus was made to be like human, (Philip. 2:7,8 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross). This was the ONLY way he could saved our life. Because it was a perfect human who lost it for us all ,( Rom. 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous). And life didn’t come in through a “big boom”, but by means of Jesus Father, he said so. Even he was CREATED, (Pro. 8:22-30) , (Colo. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.) , (Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth). And (Job 26:7 , Jerm. 31:35). Jesus helped after he was created. peace

[Amilius777]

You know I was expecting very liberal people to get into a discussion with me. I didn't know I was going to get things like- "Satan said this" or "We must believe or burn" attitudes.

I am going to have to keep myself from posting in this forum.

[Miss Hepburn]

Really? I always thought Jesus became the Christ pretty much when he walked outta
The dessert after 40 whole days and nights alone and fasting like in UTAH terrain!!
Picky, picky about the Baptism....

Talk amoungst yourselves....

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Really? I always thought Jesus became the Christ pretty much when he walked outta
The dessert after 40 whole days and nights alone and fasting like in UTAH terrain!!
Picky, picky about the Baptism....

Talk amoungst yourselves....

Your view actually is not original, however vague, if I am correct the following pretty much conveys your thoughts, and the implications of having such a thought that later becomes expressed, and therefore edified by Christians. I say vague, because you said Christ rather than The Son. Perhaps you can share the Book, Chapter and Verse?

Those that deny the doctrine of eternal Sonship would instead hold to a view that is often referred to as the Incarnational Sonship, which teaches that while Christ preexisted, He was not always the Son of God. Those that hold this view believe Christ became the Son of God at some point in history, with the most common view being that Christ became the Son at His incarnation. However, there are others who believe Christ did not become the Son until sometime after His incarnation, such as at His baptism, His resurrection, or His exaltation. It is important to realize that those who deny the eternal Sonship of Christ still recognize and affirm His deity and His eternality.

Edited by SF Staff

[Miss Hepburn]

Wait, I am so wrong I re-read Matthew... dah, I forgot he went directly to
fast after seeing John, how stupid I forgot.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Really? I always thought Jesus became the Christ pretty much when he walked outta
The dessert after 40 whole days and nights alone and fasting like in UTAH terrain!!
Picky, picky about the Baptism....

Talk amoungst yourselves....

I would think just being born from a virgin would automatically make you someone pretty special from the get go. As amazing as fasting 40 days in a desert is, it doesn't hold a candle to a virgin birth. That's just crazy! Raising people from the dead is pretty good, but raising yourself from the dead is an action of the gods. I'm pretty sure the New Testament is pointing to the divinity of Jesus. It's not hard to believe the bible would be saying Jesus is God, other religions have had man-gods incarnating from virgins. I believe the bible is similar, a book of worship for a supreme god-man.

[Amilius777]

I love it when people constantly shout out Orthodoxy when the Seminarians and theologians who helped form and uphold the so-called Orthodoxy learn in Seminary school that majority of Luke's Gospels and Matthew's just take from Mark and that the virgin birth was a very new concept among Christians in the 1st Century.

How do we know that?

Ebionites! The Ebionites were the earliest dated Christians. They had one Gospel, the Gospel of Matthew. In their Gospel which predates the "updated Matthew" there is NO virgin birth.

Acts, Letters, St. Paul, Ephesians, Colossians, Revelations do not depict a virgin birth. They all depict Jesus becoming the Christ at baptism-death-resurrection.

I am not a scholar but I have done intense study in the most celebrated scholars. Do not fight scholarship. You are wasting your time.

Gospel of John, written around 90-100 A.D. The only source John had was Mark. John, an outcast Jew-Samaritan writer. Thus outcast Jews or Samaritans in 1st Century didn't believe in virgin birth, Mother's Mary's roles, Jesus as son of man, and usually saw Jesus just as God. John's Gospel is two hairs away from being a Gnostic text depicting Jesus as some divine being appearing to be human. Ironically the Gospel of Thomas, a Gnostic text took sources from John's Gospel and perhaps Mark.

Why is Luke and Matthew so exclusive?! They have different audiences. Luke's entire infancy is taken from Matthews, and Matthew's infancy is added way later the very gospel of Matthew was written!

The dogma: Jesus, God the Son, born of virgin Mary, crucified, died for sins, resurrected, eternally begotten by Father, same substance, etc is a Theology that grew over 300 years of time. In that 300 years we have manuscripts poorly written down and copied.

So believe what you want. There is no proof of anything except that the closet to "History" is what is found in the Gospel of Mark.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

So believe what you want. There is no proof of anything except that the closet to "History" is what is found in the Gospel of Mark.

But it's not proven that Mark is right either, it's definitely influential but do we know 100% certain that it is all factual information? How could we when we weren't there for everything? Religion is not about facts but about faith in things unseen.

Originally Posted by Amilius777

You know I was expecting very liberal people to get into a discussion with me. I didn't know I was going to get things like- "Satan said this" or "We must believe or burn" attitudes.

I am going to have to keep myself from posting in this forum...

I am not a scholar but I have done intense study in the most celebrated scholars. Do not fight scholarship. You are wasting your time.

Of course one is wasting their time fighting scholarship. For one, you can find a scholar to agree with just about any notion you want. Look at Creationist and Evolutionist and all the scholars in between that perform all kinds of acrobatics in an attempt to shoehorn scientific "theory" into scripture. There's always going to be bias.

Everything you proposed here is theory.

I also cannot help but notice how you attack or belittle anyone who holds to a different doctrine, then, you even went on about crying when an adherent of a cult preached Satan, the antichrist(s), and/or fire and brimstone.

I am going to change my personality here on this forum. There will be little argument, so if you have found that in the past from me, I apologize. I enjoy engaging in Scripture, and sharing the various applications. In my belief there are several applications, however, there is only one true interpretation of Scripture. It is only recoverable through careful application - grammatical, historical, and contextual, while under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and in the Community of Christ. The text is then illumined enabling the reader to embrace the significance of what God has communicated, and to see the glory of Jesus Christ in the Word of God.

Until an opportunity arises where the invitation actually extends to Christians in the Christian forum, there is very little reason to actually engage here.