Experiences without "use"

[Shantyaikya]

I am wondering if I am naive. All my life I have never used any sort of hallucinogen and yet I have experienced things not part of the normal world. Although these experiences have been short but usually no effort is made on my part for them to occur. I am told the use of a hallucinogen is "life changing". I imagine it would be having all channels opened up forcefully. But when it ends then what? Use again to have the experience again?

I personally feel these skills should be developed through practice without use. Perhaps it pride on my part to never use. Fear also maybe. It seems all a matter of luck for me. I've done nothing but follow where my attention is guided. I have no desire to use anything.

What I would like to know is if there is anyone else like me that has never used any hallucinogens and still have experiences such as astral projection, visions, etc. And perhaps not just on and off experiences, but perhaps regular ones at your own control.

Am I alone here?

*Hands up*

What exactly is it that is bothering you so much? I am a little confused when I read your thread, I would like to understand.

Blessings
Abi _/\_

[Shantyaikya]

Ok, I added a bit to it. Sorry for the confusion. I am just being told that I NEED to do it one time. I personally see no need to, but this person insists. Once it's done, there is no going back so in the end how could I ever really tell if I needed it or not.

I totally get that the use of a drug is a tool to experience these things. What if we don't need the tool though? That's part of the evolution of humanity in my opinion. To connect without the use of anything other than focus.

It bothers me that I can not show this person that there are other people that have these experiences that have never used drugs and that I can not show that it is not the only way. Hopefully this thread will bring light to what I am trying to prove.

If you feel that you have no need to, then don't. Simple. Honour your own integrity and you cannot go wrong.

As to drug induced travels, this has been going on since the dawn of time I would imagine, most recently you can find these experiences on youtube. Personally I'm curious but it doesn't feel right, so I haven't.

Perhaps you may want to examine your relationship with your friend, or perhaps they are doing their job of questionning yourself.

I have seen and I have travelled. It is all possible without drugs, lots of people on here will say. You can check out the Astral Projection Board to just start with. Squatchit's threads are excellent and as are Xan's.

Blessings
Abi x

[Perfect Storm]

I have never taking any sort of drugs at all, neither do i drink. I am very straight-laced. I never plan to.

Drug inducements to me is taking things out of your control and responsibility. You may not be mentally or emotional ready for whatever happens next. Ofc you never know if its real spiritual experiance for just teh effect of teh drug. At least by eliminating the drug - you have taken out a BIG possibility of it NOT being real.

I see all sorts of things in my mind or against my eyelids that suddenly appear whilst I am actively 'looking'. Just look try not to wonder what I might see or it will likely appear from my thoughts (I call these 'Self creations')

These can happen even whilst out for a walk or talking on the SF chat rooms.

I can not say that what I see it 100% real - might just be that my imagination. THough I keep open minded an label them as 'possibilites'. Untill i see crystal clear, I will always have that doubt, buts its like everything else - you gotta practice.

You don't need to. I've used LSD, mushrooms in the past and it did not open up any channels. A matter of fact, it was when I sobered up. By the way I only used LSD one time. I didn't like it. Sure I was hallucinating and laughing my *** off. I laughed so hard all day and night that I couldn't talk. My vocal cords hurt. It was when I stopped drugs was when the magic began. No drugs altered or opened up channels. If you wish to give it a try, thats your choice. LSD can also permanently permifry the brain for life. If you were to use any hallucinagenic drugs I'd stick with mushrooms. I personally don't want you to use them, but if you are I'd stick with the light one for safety issues. Advise if you do. Don't think anything about a bad trip because if you do, your experience could be hell. It is possible that hallucinatins can make you see things in a whole new perspective. But it may not either. It can also lead to addiction. Be careful. Peace.

In some cultures, such as some Native American tribes, use substances to gain trance. However this does increase the flow of energy through the chakras at a higher rate that your body is used to, which can cause physical problems if over used.

The better tack is to take it slowly and gain the level natural, this way you can reach it at any time without the use of any substance.

Follow your heart, intuition and inner guidance, and be strong in what you believe, do not worry about those who try to talk you down from following your heart path. You have spiritual abilities, and you can strengthen them naturally.

Substance abuse distorts the spiritual experience, the psychic sense reactors become intoxicated, thus leads to misleading experiences and dire results.
The mind becomes unable to perceive reality, because of dying brain cells and horrible physical consequences, which induces a temporary veil to be lifted, and the person to be able to experience a temporary shift in consciousness. If you abuse the plant, or don’t know how to use it properly, bad things happen, and you are only killing yourself slowly.

And these shifts in consciousness are not ever 100% credible, and continuous use of substances will make a person weaker spiritually. It will tie them down into bad energies, and addict energies, and bad spirits. You can never trust what you see when intoxicated, it is not a real spiritual experience, as it is clouded.

Though it may temporarily lift the veils, at the same time you are also having a trip of your own mind, which is ever so dangerous. Spiritual experiences, or vision quests should be controlled, not dangerous trips to the other side without knowing what one is doing. Messing with sacred substances is a bad idea if you don’t know what you are doing.

I wish people would know the difference between how native Americans use plants, because I know it's just not talked about much. It’s not about getting “high”, and it never was. And using it to get high to reach the spiritual realms, or on vision quests?
We don’t do this in the way you think, it’s a great misconception. This is exactly why the sacred plant of tobacco is killing people. If you think that’s how it works, you will end up getting yourself hurt, and that's not good :) We respect plants, they have spirits. We don’t misuse them. The difference is, people don’t know how to use plants properly these days. I think if someone wants to abuse a plant to get a spiritual high, they better know how to, or else it will only destruct them. Unless they truly know how it works, and how to respect it, and how to do it in general, or else it is only bad results. Native Americans don’t rely on intoxication to be spiritual. We don’t mess with addict energies that are destructive, that is the way. You may not ever understand how we use plants to enhance the spiritual process, and I cannot really say how it goes. But the idea of getting high, is not how it goes.

Abusing substances is the way of the weak, and it doesn’t work for permanent results. If you have natural spirit gifts, and abilities, then it is best to not mess those up by using drugs. You don’t need a drug to take you to the other realms. In fact, it is more of a sincere and truthful experience without it. You are stronger without. Don't need any of that. And it's very much playing with fire.

[I AM]

I was a local profesional musician for over 14 years, my job was to entertain people in bars and night clubs, 99.9% of which where on somthing if not just alcohol and nicotine.
Ive been around the block here, Ive tried many things over the years and I can tell you that a drug induced state is not the same thing as a direct experience of what you truly are.

If you want a quick and easly obtained memorable experience of an altered state of counscoiusness at the risk of adiction or worse, be my guest. I can't say it's not enjoyable. But at some point you still have to face what you are, in this lifetime or the next.

I am not saying that drugs are evil or even necessarly bad, but there more like a vacation from reality than a true experience of it.

Chuck ..

[Shantyaikya]

I am pretty aware that shamanism is defined by the use of these substances. In fact, I was instructed to watch a video of a guy talking about them and how HE believes they've influenced the human race to get to where it is now .... and how we should all just be doing DMT to end all war and conflict.

I am just trying to show that there are many people that have never used anything and have plenty of experiences of connections to spirit/consciousness. No, probably not as intense as the ones that come from usage, but experiences none-the-less.

I have heard many of Athymari's experiences and they seem to be very vivid to her. I am glad to see she has posted here.

There's no need to convince me not to do it. I made that decision too long ago. I was just feeling a bit alienated by this person. It's ok though. I didn't really know if there were other people like me so that's why I was wondering if I was naive. I do hope more people respond.